2024 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona-Catalunya, June 21 - 23

[basti313]

Still don’t understand Norris’ plan. He went long on the first stint, got more out of his second stint, but lost it overtaking those cars.

That is the point.
All this back and forward "Max is the best" vs. "He has a wormhole to not have the fastest car"...the simple point is that McLaren tried something different and lost more than 10sec and, more relevant, track position in the first stint by running the old tire too long. They could never make the strategy work as they lost too much time with overtaking due to this.

I am not sure why they went for this strategy. The obvious way to win in Barcelona is to push the leader, not giving him time to save his tires for later, maybe even doing an additional stop in the end. And they had the chance, they had a slam dunk overcut to Russel due to the bad stop and they had free track behind to not run into traffic in an undercut to Verstappen. Even if the undercut does not work, they can stay behind and push for the next stop. One of the races where you sit in front of the TV and live timing and think "Box Box Box!!!!!!"

[Mosin123]

Perez can't pass an Alpine but Verstappen probably could. Does that mean Perez's car isn't faster than the Alpine?

Norris had used soft tires for his final stint that had 3 laps on them already. Verstappen had new softs. Norris pitted 3 laps after Verstappen, so tire corrected (Norris on used tires) there was virtually no tire age difference between them in the final stint. Norris closed the gap from 8.1 seconds to 2 seconds. Norris's fastest lap of the race is 6 tenths clear of Verstappen's, both set in that final stint. Why are people confused about what car was faster today?

Over the distance of the race, Max was the faster car. Race isnt won on who pushes the most on the last stint.

That wasn't the purpose of pointing out the final stint. The final stint is just the obvious reference point for the inevevitable "it wasn't clear" arguments.

Already from the first stint, once Russell pitted out of the way, Norris put in a lap 6 tenths faster than Verstappen and was doing 20.9s on his 22nd lap on the soft. All the deg charts show Mclaren superior. All the clean air pace charts show Mclaren superior. Norris said he had the best car. All of the post-race news reporting and data analysis from AMUS, formula-uno, the-race, etc is going to say the same thing.

I don't know what to tell you guys. It's not worth arguing anymore.

“Not could have won it,” said Lando Norris after finishing the 2024 Spanish Grand Prix a couple of seconds behind Max Verstappen.

“Should have won it. The car was incredible today, for sure the quickest. It was decided by a poor start.”

The fastest car finished first........... could have, would have, should have doesnt matter. one car passed GR with easy, the other spent lap after lap after lap after lap looking at the rear wing of GR because he didnt have the pace to get past...... Simple facts

[Silent Storm]

Over the distance of the race, Max was the faster car. Race isnt won on who pushes the most on the last stint.

That wasn't the purpose of pointing out the final stint. The final stint is just the obvious reference point for the inevevitable "it wasn't clear" arguments.

Already from the first stint, once Russell pitted out of the way, Norris put in a lap 6 tenths faster than Verstappen and was doing 20.9s on his 22nd lap on the soft. All the deg charts show Mclaren superior. All the clean air pace charts show Mclaren superior. Norris said he had the best car. All of the post-race news reporting and data analysis from AMUS, formula-uno, the-race, etc is going to say the same thing.

I don't know what to tell you guys. It's not worth arguing anymore.

“Not could have won it,” said Lando Norris after finishing the 2024 Spanish Grand Prix a couple of seconds behind Max Verstappen.

“Should have won it. The car was incredible today, for sure the quickest. It was decided by a poor start.”

The fastest car finished first........... could have, would have, should have doesnt matter. one car passed GR with easy, the other spent lap after lap after lap after lap looking at the rear wing of GR because he didnt have the pace to get past...... Simple facts

Max passed George easily because that was his only chance before his tyres started to overheat... If Max had failed that attempt he would have been stuck behind George like Lando... Lap 2 was the only chance of an overtake (GP basically told him that) and Max took it.

If Lando was P2 he would have done the same as Max.

[Mosin123]

That wasn't the purpose of pointing out the final stint. The final stint is just the obvious reference point for the inevevitable "it wasn't clear" arguments.

Already from the first stint, once Russell pitted out of the way, Norris put in a lap 6 tenths faster than Verstappen and was doing 20.9s on his 22nd lap on the soft. All the deg charts show Mclaren superior. All the clean air pace charts show Mclaren superior. Norris said he had the best car. All of the post-race news reporting and data analysis from AMUS, formula-uno, the-race, etc is going to say the same thing.

I don't know what to tell you guys. It's not worth arguing anymore.

The fastest car finished first........... could have, would have, should have doesnt matter. one car passed GR with easy, the other spent lap after lap after lap after lap looking at the rear wing of GR because he didnt have the pace to get past...... Simple facts

Max passed George easily because that was his only chance before his tyres started to overheat... If Max had failed that attempt he would have been stuck behind George like Lando... Lap 2 was the only chance of an overtake (GP basically told him that) and Max took it.

If Lando was P2 he would have done the same as Max.

Lando didnt have the pace to pass GR, untill he had a tyre delta, its what happened........ Max lined him up and passed him in 1 attempt, didnt spend any longer than needed behind GR, then went into managment mode and managed his pace till the last stint in which he picked up the pace slightly, but then he only needed to do enough to stay ahead, at no point did Max push push push like Lando did doing qualy lap then a cd lap, then a qualy lap, max was doing nice steady consistant lap times, he had a fair bit more pace if he needed.

Horner agrees " “We felt at that stage that he’d done such a good job in managing the tyres, there was only one corner that we could see that Lando was quicker, which was in turn one, and the rest of the lap he had it covered,” Horner told Sky. “So it was always going to get closer because of that offset in pit stops. But we always felt confident from the tools that we had that he had enough in hand.” " https://www.racefans.net/2024/06/23/nor ... ng-horner/

[chrisc90]

Would love to know what the RBR ‘tools’ are.
Even down to individual corner or laps RB can use the ‘tools’ to benefit them.

Clinical

[SiLo]

The difference today was really Max making the pass on Russell early. But then, I don't think the Mclaren has the DRS delta the RB has yet to make it.

[Seanspeed]

Would love to know what the RBR ‘tools’ are.
Even down to individual corner or laps RB can use the ‘tools’ to benefit them.

Clinical

I mean, all they'd really need in this case is just knowing the state of the tires and simulations of what they expected of tire life/performance in an optimal situation, judged against what Lando was doing.

[chrisc90]

Would love to know what the RBR ‘tools’ are.
Even down to individual corner or laps RB can use the ‘tools’ to benefit them.

Clinical

I mean, all they'd really need in this case is just knowing the state of the tires and simulations of what they expected of tire life/performance in an optimal situation, judged against what Lando was doing.

I think there’s more to it than that.

[basti313]

Would love to know what the RBR ‘tools’ are.
Even down to individual corner or laps RB can use the ‘tools’ to benefit them.

Clinical

I mean, all they'd really need in this case is just knowing the state of the tires and simulations of what they expected of tire life/performance in an optimal situation, judged against what Lando was doing.

I think there’s more to it than that.

Of course. One of the core things is certainly tire pressure, but as mentioned tire usage. They knew, that there is no undercut/overcut danger, so they could go easy on the pressure and bring the tire slowly up as they knew that the last laps are crucial. Fuel and ERS also plays a role, they could use all battery, while McLaren needed to keep juice for an overtake attempt.

But I think the "tools" were more crucial against Russel. The speed was actually massive, they certainly used the tires a lot and saved the battery for this one attempt.

[Hoffman900]

George’s start reminded me of this:

[motobaleno]

The fastest car finished first........... could have, would have, should have doesnt matter. one car passed GR with easy, the other spent lap after lap after lap after lap looking at the rear wing of GR because he didnt have the pace to get past...... Simple facts

this easy overtake (and the related radio message by lambiase) together with usual Q3 performance increase by verstappen in my opinion has not been focused enough. It reminds me of an engine performance trick used with big caution by RB.
Just to avoud flames, by no means I'm impling something illegal. The "hidden" use could be related to reliability issue or simply they want to keep it unnoticed as long as possible to avoid copying

[Bill]

mclaren is a dragy car compared to the redbull and the choise of rearwing also affect speed on the straights.now that cars are getting closer at the front the difference between pu is going to play an important role .

[ali623]

The fastest car finished first........... could have, would have, should have doesnt matter. one car passed GR with easy, the other spent lap after lap after lap after lap looking at the rear wing of GR because he didnt have the pace to get past...... Simple facts

Verstappen's seemingly easy overtake on Russell can be explained by his somewhat unappreciated ability to drive close in the dirty air of the car in front. This is something Verstappen and Hamilton are better at than anyone else on the grid in my opinion. Why do you think Verstappen can routinely pass cars with ease yet Perez often get's stuck behind much slower cars lap after lap despite having the same Red Bull at his disposal (same with Hamilton and Bottas back in the Mercedes days).

Norris struggled to get more than 0.7s behind Russell out the final corner, and along with the slight tow Russell was getting off Verstappen, Norris had no opportunity to pass. Verstappen, however, managed to exit the final corner 0.6s behind Russell at the end of lap 2, and since Russell had no tow from anyone ahead, that gave Verstappen just enough to attack into T1.

[basti313]

The fastest car finished first........... could have, would have, should have doesnt matter. one car passed GR with easy, the other spent lap after lap after lap after lap looking at the rear wing of GR because he didnt have the pace to get past...... Simple facts

this easy overtake (and the related radio message by lambiase) together with usual Q3 performance increase by verstappen in my opinion has not been focused enough. It reminds me of an engine performance trick used with big caution by RB.
Just to avoud flames, by no means I'm impling something illegal. The "hidden" use could be related to reliability issue or simply they want to keep it unnoticed as long as possible to avoid copying

I do not think it is unnoticed. It is quite clear, that the different engines have different strengths. Or in more technical terms I would say they have differently sized turbos with accordingly different profiles on the deployment.
The superpower of Honda is, that they can deploy a lot on one straight, a turbo boost for DRS overtakes. On the other hand the Merc for example is more efficient in regenerating the energy, they can do more subsequent laps with high power.
Of course this is magnified by a good car. Same as the Merc could glance after 2014 and sometimes got flying over several laps, now the Bull can simply save energy and stay in DRS range without using the battery too much. Then use the battery for a strong boost...and past.

[Hoffman900]

The start:


Look at the RB leap on the first gear change. Not sure if Lando had wheel spin when he decided to move his car over, or the Honda just deploys better, or its gearing related.