2024 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona-Catalunya, June 21 - 23

[chrisc90]

I think there might have been a little bit more pace in the final stint, but more averaged out to give better care for the tyres.

[ringo]

Some team radio. Max had more in the tank as expected. He merely managed the pace to save his tyres.
Interestingly the race engineer never really says push hard, only to manage less. They haven't gone all out all season.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/06/25/rev ... -struggle/

Im sorry are we reading the same thing? Or are you intentionally misrepresenting what you're posting to suit your narrative..?

Lap: 52/66 VER: 1’17.931

Verstappen What do you want me to do, mate?

Lambiase We need to push to the end now Max.

I also had max's onboard up for the entire race, as I do for every race using multiviewer. He was absolutely using all of the car's pace here

You are deluding yourself if you think red bull are hiding pace at this point. For instance, Max started the post-SC phase in P2 behind Lando at Miami for instance and Lando easily dropped him out of DRS and pulled 5s on Max. But he was simply managing there too I suppose

Told to push at lap 52 of 66 laps. That's 14 laps left in the race. 14 laps with your opponet almost 10 seconds behind. Lando would need to make up 0.8s per lap to have one attempt on the final lap and this is ignoring the pace delta needed to overtake the redbull. Max was limiting his pace comfortably for 78% of the race.
It was a race well managed by team and driver.
The push was only to maintain the buffer. I cannot say that's really the RB20 pushing over a race distance.
When we get Lando on the same strategy with only him and Max at the front, no safety cars, in the dry, then we will see a real fight on our hands.
What's revealing is the high quality of information between Max and Lambiase compared to Bird and Perez.

[venkyhere]

Some team radio. Max had more in the tank as expected. He merely managed the pace to save his tyres.
Interestingly the race engineer never really says push hard, only to manage less. They haven't gone all out all season.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/06/25/rev ... -struggle/

Im sorry are we reading the same thing? Or are you intentionally misrepresenting what you're posting to suit your narrative..?

Lap: 52/66 VER: 1’17.931

Verstappen What do you want me to do, mate?

Lambiase We need to push to the end now Max.

I also had max's onboard up for the entire race, as I do for every race using multiviewer. He was absolutely using all of the car's pace here

You are deluding yourself if you think red bull are hiding pace at this point. For instance, Max started the post-SC phase in P2 behind Lando at Miami for instance and Lando easily dropped him out of DRS and pulled 5s on Max. But he was simply managing there too I suppose

Told to push at lap 52 of 66 laps. That's 14 laps left in the race. 14 laps with your opponet almost 10 seconds behind. Lando would need to make up 0.8s per lap to have one attempt on the final lap and this is ignoring the pace delta needed to overtake the redbull. Max was limiting his pace comfortably for 78% of the race.
It was a race well managed by team and driver.
The push was only to maintain the buffer. I cannot say that's really the RB20 pushing over a race distance.
When we get Lando on the same strategy with only him and Max at the front, no safety cars, in the dry, then we will see a real fight on our hands.
What's revealing is the high quality of information between Max and Lambiase compared to Bird and Perez.

Sorry mate, I can't keep silent anymore when the "redbull hiding pace" narrative is getting so much traction.
- VER said the first lap and the overtake is the reason he won
- NOR said the exact same thing above, as the reason for not winning
- they gave VER a faster engine mode for last 14-15 laps (a team that is fighting to keep engines in pool and not lose them)
- no driver worth his salt will allow a 9s lead to drop to 2s, no matter what FoM or DTS ask of him, inorder to to 'play to the crowd', because there is no other purpose to 'hide pace', esp in this era of ultra data analysis where no one can hide from anyone.

Please dont fall for this narrative, I can perceive only two reasons for this :
- delusion, inability for a RedBull fan to accept that RB20 isn't the fastest car, though it looks the most revolutionary and 'cleverest' in terms of design
- Verstappen haters who can't allow the 'driver is making the difference' narrative to gain traction, and want to say 'it's still the fastest car, driver isn't doing anything special with it'.

[TFSA]

You are just nit picking at this point. Rubbing is racing. It was clean pass. Extreme scrutiny whenever it comes to Hamilton from some corners. The overtake was blinding and on edge and was appreciated by the Spanish crowd, even if it was against their driver.

Not in open wheel series (except on lap 1 or a start). You got F1 mixed up with Nascar.

At least one car shedded carbon fiber, and the car being overtaken was almost pushed off the track. That's not a clean pass in any way, shape or form by F1 standards. And it's definitely not a consistent with any previous Steward-decisions i can recall.

[GrizzleBoy]

You are just nit picking at this point. Rubbing is racing. It was clean pass. Extreme scrutiny whenever it comes to Hamilton from some corners. The overtake was blinding and on edge and was appreciated by the Spanish crowd, even if it was against their driver.

Not in open wheel series (except on lap 1 or a start). You got F1 mixed up with Nascar.

At least one car shedded carbon fiber, and the car being overtaken was almost pushed off the track. That's not a clean pass in any way, shape or form by F1 standards. And it's definitely not a consistent with any previous Steward-decisions i can recall.

It takes two cars to race, as most are aware.

The Stewards would not have taken just the actions of Lewis into account when making their decision.

Lewis' line on the exit of the corner was dictated by how much room Carlos decided to give him on the exit of the corner and at the apex.

It was shown on the skypad that Carlos forced Lewis onto the kerb.

Which caused his car to bounce.

Which caused his car to have a snap of oversteer which is easily seen from the onboard.

Which caused him to eventually have understeer at corner exit, since all that he time spent bouncing and sliding, he wasn't slowing down effectively.


Like I said, it takes two to race and I doubt the Stewards would have disregarded all of the above when it came to making their decision.

[Just_a_fan]

Entirely different situations, for one thing.

The only difference i see between Zhou/Yuki and Hamilton/Sainz is that Zhou decided to back out, where'as Sainz didn't, which resulted in contact. Had Zhou kept his line, the result would pretty much have been the same as Sainz/Hamilton - perhaps with slightly rougher contact, but basic principle is the same.

And look at who is overtaking and who goes off.

In one, the overtaking driver goes off thanks to the defence - not allowed, penalty.

In the other, the defending driver has lost the fight and tries to hang on. The attacking driver wins the argument. This is classic Max overtaking technique so surprising to see some complain about it, frankly.

[TFSA]

And look at who is overtaking and who goes off.

In one, the overtaking driver goes off thanks to the defence - not allowed, penalty.

First of all, i gotta admit that i forgot that Zhou was the overtaking driver in 2023, not Yuki. So that's absolutely a difference i overlooked.

But the second part is actually incorrect. In fact, it's perfectly allowed to run the other driver off when he's attempting an outside overtake.
It depends on some factors, primarily how far alongside the overtaking driver is after the apex, because by the guidelines, he has to be fully ahead - but there's certainly of examples of defending drivers running the overtaking drivers off on an outside overtake attempt with no penalty, nor investigation:

• Verstappen vs. Mick Schumacher, Silverstone 2022. (first 7 seconds of the video)
• Perez vs. Piastri, Hungary 2023. (around 18 sec into the video. Admittingly, Piastri was still within track limits, but he did go on the grass and almost lost control)

In the other, the defending driver has lost the fight and tries to hang on. The attacking driver wins the argument. This is classic Max overtaking technique so surprising to see some complain about it, frankly.

Defending driver lost the fight because of contact. If you bump into someone and they lose grip and speed, "he lost the fight" doesn't hold up as an argument.

Also, hence the complaint. It's the contact that makes the difference. Had there been no contact and Sainz stayed on track, this would have been a great overtake. As it looks to me, it's a driver going too deep.

[Chuckjr]

Full race 2024 Spanish GP team / driver radio:
Perez
Piastri
Sainz
Russell
Leclerc
Hamilton

https://youtube.com/@insidethecockpit2

Don’t know how long these will be up, but they are a good listen.

[PlatinumZealot]

What Max does when you take him from the inside is to feather the brakes and follow you from the oustide in a parallel line then either you touch him, in which case he drives off track at full speed and pass you back - capitalizing on confusion whether he was ahead at the apex before you push him off.... Or.. You scares you into braking too early and giving space.

How do you attack him from the inside?
You do what Lewis did in Silverstone. Stay inside and hold your ground. He will turn in harder looking for the touch.. But this time he wont have the off-track to use.. And he will compromise his ballance.

So how do you attack Max from the outside you might ask?

Answer: Don't attack Max from the outside!!

[AR3-GP]

What Max does when you take him from the inside is to feather the brakes and follow you from the oustide in a parallel line then either you touch him, in which case he drives off track at full speed and pass you back - capitalizing on confusion whether he was ahead at the apex before you push him off.... Or.. You scares you into braking too early and giving space.

How do you attack him from the inside?
You do what Lewis did in Silverstone. Stay inside and hold your ground. He will turn in harder looking for the touch.. But this time he wont have the off-track to use.. And he will compromise his ballance.

So how do you attack Max from the outside you might ask?

Answer: Don't attack Max from the outside!!

[Dunlay]

What Max does when you take him from the inside is to feather the brakes and follow you from the oustide in a parallel line then either you touch him, in which case he drives off track at full speed and pass you back - capitalizing on confusion whether he was ahead at the apex before you push him off.... Or.. You scares you into braking too early and giving space.

How do you attack him from the inside?
You do what Lewis did in Silverstone. Stay inside and hold your ground. He will turn in harder looking for the touch.. But this time he wont have the off-track to use.. And he will compromise his ballance.

So how do you attack Max from the outside you might ask?

Answer: Don't attack Max from the outside!!