Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[ISLAMATRON]

Ha HA to you... nice try... Piquet crashed on lap 13(or more precisely turn 17 of his 14th lap)... not lap 15 as you claim... although the leaders may have started lap 15.

Which makes it lap 15 of the race.

But it was not, PK is bad but not that bad that he was already lapped by the 14th lap... you claim that MW & DC pit on Lap 15 when the link I provided from F1.com clearly shows that they pitted on lap 14, just after PK spun... look at the evidence

Is it not very strange for any car starting 11th or lower to start the race on fumes and the soft tires?

On a street circuit?
Knowing the possibility of a safety car can throw the whole thing into dissarray.
It is not an unheard of strategy.

You are correct, it is not an unheard of strategy, one that LH has tried a couple of times this year(as Miguel has pointed out) with mixed results, but had HK been behind LH and spun purposefully that would have afforded LH a big advantage, just as it happened to FA.

So Alonso, having been the only car that pitted B4 PK's crash was guaranteed to be at the head of the field.

If you were paying attention, you'd realise he didn't hit the head of the field until half distance, long after the safety car departed.

I was paying attention, if you were you would have seen that he was only behind cars(Nico, Rk,...) who needed to serve a penalty(for pitted when pits are closed) and Fisi who did not pit. As soon as they showed FA pit and come out in last place I said to myself, his race is done unless the SC comes out right now, and when PK spun I said out loud Alonso just won.

Do you remember how long the SC was out? and How many laps went by before Nico & Bob were called in?

NO matter what, Alonso would have been ahead of Massa, because that is the nature of the red light pit rule in F1

Surely you realise Massa did not pit under the closed pitlane...

Again, please pay better attention... I did not say MAssa came in under the closed pit lane... I said Massa(if he had a proper pit stop) would have been behind Alonso because at the END of the pit lane F1 has a red light instead of a blend line. The same red light that Kimi & Bob stopped for(Canada) that LH ran into the back of them. That red light ensures that Whoever is in the pits comes out behind whoever is On track behind the SC... please please pay attention.... That is why LH(who was right behind Massa & had a regular stop) came out behind Alonso.

And Hamilton was in the exact position, Massa would have been in if FErrari did not destroy Massa's race.

I've already pointed out Coulthard destroyed Hamilton's race.
Massa was significantly faster than Coulthard.

So was LH, he started P2, that is why he was the first car in the line of the cars who pitted behind the SC, but Singapore does not allow for passing.

All in all a perfect plan by Flav and the boys

Except it relied on further outside factors (beyond just the safety car), these factors being:

Rosberg having to pit under closed pitlane.
Coulthard slowing up Hamilton.
Massa's botched stop, ruining his and Raikkonens race (and Coulthard existing to affect their race also).
The basis of your "argument" is pathetic.

What is pathetic is your lack of understanding of race strategy, Alonso was already ahead of LH because LH had to pit behind the SC, he did not need DC to slow down LH, If LH could not pass DC in Singapore he certainly as not going to pass FA.
Rosberg was ---(relative to FA) whether he pitted when the pit lane was closed, or when everyone pitted under the SC. The only reason NR finished as high as he did was because they took so long to call him and Bob in, he was able to build up a gap for when he was called in to serve his penalty.
MAssa was ---(relative to FA) when he had to pit under the SC and then double --- with the fuel rig incident.
Kimi was --- when he had to pit behind the SC, then he was double --- because he was stacked behind MAssa, then he was triple --- because of the fuel rig problem.


All the top runners being --- is exactly why they changed the SC pit lane rules, it is a shame if you watch the races and still dont know what the hell is going on.

I'm not saying that FA & the crew did it on purpose, I'm saying that if they did it definatly handed the race win FA.

[Ray]

I'm not saying that FA & the crew did it on purpose, I'm saying that if they did it definatly handed the race win FA.

No you aren't, you're arguing that they did do it on purpose. That's the whole basis of everything you've said. Why do you even care? Does it affect you? Will you not be able to eat this week since they 'may' have cheated? Will you go without clothes? Quit bitching about something that doesn't affect you.

[ISLAMATRON]

I choose to ignore your worthless, ignorant and idiotic posts

That is me attacking the post and not the poster

[Ray]

^

[xpensive]

You might be right Ray, certain things you get used to.

[The FOZ]

I choose to ignore your worthless, ignorant and idiotic posts

That is me attacking the post and not the poster

People, do not take the bait. This sort of thing is a desperate plea for attention. Ignoring it is the only solution.

[Scotracer]

This thread seems to bring out the worst in people. I wonder what Flavio did to you all as young boys...

[mx_tifoso]

This thread seems to bring out the worst in people. I wonder what Flavio did to you all as young boys...

Was he a catholic priest before his foray in F1 or what?

[xpensive]

Or perhaps an Imam?

[Ciro Pabón]

It's hard to think of crashing a team car for the other to gain advantage, but it is a possibility.

Actually, it is logical to deduce that Renault has a strategy in place about what to do under that scenario. Every team must have some "recipes" already in place, I cannot believe that the strategy team only produces the pit lap schedule and go home.

The crux of the issue is NOT who benefited. Renault got a victory because of the crash and (of course) because of many other things, that's how victories are.

The question is: is there any proof of Renault doing that on purpose?

You have to assume that they didn't say so on the microphone AND that there must be some kind of proof for FIA to go public.

So, that leaves us with a couple of other questions: what's the proof? and, was Piquet the mole?

Mmmmmm... who knows? You could guess he is, after reading Mr. Ecclestone not-so-veiled threat to him: "If it is true, then I would have thought Nelson was in just as much trouble." Or perhaps he is exonerating Piquet, like when you say: "He cannot be so stupid as to implicate himself, because if he does it, I will screw him".

Thus, I conclude, Piquet won't talk soon: he cannot do it except after negotiations for immunity. FIA's "informants" were rewarded with immunity when McLaren had troubles, I imagine they still have the same policy in place.

Islamatron, I think I understand you. For example, if anybody mentions Jerez 97 again in this forum, I will attack a few posters by myself, preferably using a brick or something more solid than my keyboard. However, I hereby gratefully acknowledge your concesion to my efforts. See? It's enough to mention that the post is idiotic (I don't think the post is idiotic, btw, but I do think all of you are wild-guessing).

Flavio Briatore has his fans and his detractors, he's a public figure and his reactions during the FOTA affair will have a weigh, even if small. Besides, those declarations can weigh in for him and not necessarily against him, I don't think FIA board is monolithic..

I don't suscribe to Scotracer point of view: I guess that those in this forum who knew Briatore when young are not against him, all the opposite.

[Scotracer]

Sorry but Ciro, have you seen Flav in a thong? If I was exposed to that as a child I doubt I'd even shout to say mind that truck for him.

[megz]

The basis of your "argument" is pathetic.

Amen to that

It's the usual stamp the top of the mountain and shout from ISLAM.

It's PRETTY clear that they COULDN'T have fixed the race for a certain victory that's for sure. An advantage, sure, but we don't yet have any proof of anything being dictated from the pitlane. So, let us all make peace and sit calmly with our hands beneath our butts while we wait for some real evidence.

[Callum]

I'm all for innocent until proven guilty but I had a thought(dun dun dunnn..)

Some people were saying that Renault couldn't have known about things like the Ferrari accident and all the random things that happend for them to win. Maybe they didn't plan on winning, just greatly increasing their points take. They just got lucky basically.

As I said, innocent until proven guilty.

[Patriiick]

Even if Piquet is given some type of "immunity", his carreer is dead in F1.
Who will hire a driver with doubtful talent, being a diva after being fired and causing all sorts of trouble ?

The only way we ll see Piquet drive in F1 again is if Daddy buys him BMW/Sauber... (which could happen !)

[dumrick]

Who will hire a driver with doubtful talent, being a diva after being fired and causing all sorts of trouble ?

Indeed, to behave like a diva and cause trouble, you must at least have Alonso's talent

I still haven't found any reliable source connecting Piquet to this investigation, though. And you know I think the guy has some talent.