Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[Patriiick]

Who will hire a driver with doubtful talent, being a diva after being fired and causing all sorts of trouble ?

Indeed, to behave like a diva and cause trouble, you must at least have Alonso's talent

I still haven't found any reliable source connecting Piquet to this investigation, though. And you know I think the guy has some talent.

Could not agree more.. that s why alonso got away with it at the stepney-gate !
In terms of connection to the investigation, I thing Nelson sr. would be a prime candidate for starting things up

[kilcoo316]

But it was not, PK is bad but not that bad that he was already lapped by the 14th lap... you claim that MW & DC pit on Lap 15 when the link I provided from F1.com clearly shows that they pitted on lap 14, just after PK spun... look at the evidence

F1.com differs from other sites.


This differing of information regarding lap13/14/15 is of absolutely f**k all relevance to the core of the argument.

You are correct, it is not an unheard of strategy, one that LH has tried a couple of times this year(as Miguel has pointed out) with mixed results, but had HK been behind LH and spun purposefully that would have afforded LH a big advantage, just as it happened to FA.

Note that in your post you have already presumed Piquet spun on purpose.

I was paying attention, if you were you would have seen that he was only behind cars(Nico, Rk,...) who needed to serve a penalty(for pitted when pits are closed) and Fisi who did not pit.

Was Alonso at the head of the field when the safety car came in after Piquet's crash?

Yes or no.

As soon as they showed FA pit and come out in last place I said to myself, his race is done unless the SC comes out right now, and when PK spun I said out loud Alonso just won.

Oh right.

That makes it all ok then.

Do you remember how long the SC was out? and How many laps went by before Nico & Bob were called in?

Only about 3/4 laps, and they were called in straight away as they were bingo fuel.

Again, please pay better attention... I did not say MAssa came in under the closed pit lane... I said Massa(if he had a proper pit stop) would have been behind Alonso because at the END of the pit lane F1 has a red light instead of a blend line.

Which would still have been reliant on Coulthard to prevent Hamilton/Massa & Raikkonen overtaking Alonso at his second stop.

You'll note I point that out later in the post.

So was LH, he started P2, that is why he was the first car in the line of the cars who pitted behind the SC, but Singapore does not allow for passing.

So Renault could predict they would have a blocker (in Coulthard)?

Do they have a crystal ball on their pitwall?

What is pathetic is your lack of understanding of race strategy, Alonso was already ahead of LH because LH had to pit behind the SC, he did not need DC to slow down LH, If LH could not pass DC in Singapore he certainly as not going to pass FA.

For a man with such an apparently advanced knowledge of race strategy, you'd think you'd realise the blindingly obvious. Alonso would be vulnerable at his second stop if he did not have a gap built up to the faster chasing pack (comprised of Hamilton, and the hypothetical Ferrari pair).

[xpensive]

I say, your stamina is most impressive kilcoo.

[raceman]

I say, your stamina is most impressive kilcoo.

right said

[jason.parker.86]

I doubt any team would ask any driver to crash on purpose! In my opinion - this is a nice excuse for Renault to exit Formula 1.

[Moanlower]

Even if Piquet is given some type of "immunity", his carreer is dead in F1.
Who will hire a driver with doubtful talent, being a diva after being fired and causing all sorts of trouble ?

The only way we ll see Piquet drive in F1 again is if Daddy buys him BMW/Sauber... (which could happen !)

Don't think it's been posted here..

Nelson on twitter yesterday: "Things are looking good for next year guys and I can't wait to drive again!"
about 22 hours ago from TwitterBerry

A rumour is that Kubica will replace Badoer while Nelson could replace Kubica. Wouldn't be that weird if they are set on buying BMW Sauber. But could also be just plain BS. Time will tell soon, I guess.

[Rob W]

Point being guys: on face value the accusation looks plausible and shocking. But once you look at the detail it looks less and less like Renault could realistically have guessed on so many small factors which worked in their favour in the end. Some maybe.

The length of time the safety car was out for one, and whether any other car out there had taken a punt on a very long first-stint one-stop race.

So many of the finer details debated (with passion) here don't really matter so much when you think of it from a: what could Renault reasonably foresee and what could they influence during the race point of view.

[kilcoo316]

I say, your stamina is most impressive kilcoo.

Winding him up is fuel for me

[xpensive]

You're bad.

[ben_watkins]

I think the whole thing is a load of BS..

Renault had improved the car by Singapore. Alonso lucked out when Piquet crashed, yes that's true..

However, he went on to win in Japan, without Piquet's "help".. So where's the story?

The whole thing is just a way for Piquet to get back at Flavio!

[jason.parker.86]

Nelson was a s**t driver anyway. Nothing but a cry baby. He was given the equipment and did not deliver.

[SZ]

So Renault could predict they would have a blocker (in Coulthard)?

Do they have a crystal ball on their pitwall?

Of course! When all else fails Flavio consults a mass damper... simply speaking the 'right answer' hits resonance every time!
OOOOOHHH EXTRA CONSPIRACY they were banned too!

JP86: not a bad call...

[ISLAMATRON]

But it was not, PK is bad but not that bad that he was already lapped by the 14th lap... you claim that MW & DC pit on Lap 15 when the link I provided from F1.com clearly shows that they pitted on lap 14, just after PK spun... look at the evidence

F1.com differs from other sites.
This differing of information regarding lap13/14/15 is of absolutely f**k all relevance to the core of the argument.

Yes, as soon as the correct evidence is presented to you, differing from the false one you provided to support your argument, it suddenly has no relevance to the core of the argument, classic loser's tactic.

You are correct, it is not an unheard of strategy, one that LH has tried a couple of times this year(as Miguel has pointed out) with mixed results, but had HK been behind LH and spun purposefully that would have afforded LH a big advantage, just as it happened to FA.

Note that in your post you have already presumed Piquet spun on purpose.

Note that your reading comprehension suffers, spinning on purpose is attributed to HK, not to PK, big advantage is attributed to LH & FA, regardless of how/why their teammate hypothetically spun.

I was paying attention, if you were you would have seen that he was only behind cars(Nico, Rk,...) who needed to serve a penalty(for pitted when pits are closed) and Fisi who did not pit.

Was Alonso at the head of the field when the safety car came in after Piquet's crash?

Yes or no.

Yes, he was the first car that did not need to pit or serve a penalty, that is all that matters

Again, please pay better attention... I did not say MAssa came in under the closed pit lane... I said Massa(if he had a proper pit stop) would have been behind Alonso because at the END of the pit lane F1 has a red light instead of a blend line.

Which would still have been reliant on Coulthard to prevent Hamilton/Massa & Raikkonen overtaking Alonso at his second stop.
You'll note I point that out later in the post.

So was LH, he started P2, that is why he was the first car in the line of the cars who pitted behind the SC, but Singapore does not allow for passing.

So Renault could predict they would have a blocker (in Coulthard)?

Do they have a crystal ball on their pitwall?

FA did not need a blocker, his 1st pit was long and took alot of fuel(more evidence that it may have been planned) and so therefore LH pitted a grand total of 1 lap later than FA on the 2nd pitstop, FA could have kept up enough gap without DC to prevent being leapfrogged by the 1 lap difference.

What is pathetic is your lack of understanding of race strategy, Alonso was already ahead of LH because LH had to pit behind the SC, he did not need DC to slow down LH, If LH could not pass DC in Singapore he certainly as not going to pass FA.

For a man with such an apparently advanced knowledge of race strategy, you'd think you'd realise the blindingly obvious. Alonso would be vulnerable at his second stop if he did not have a gap built up to the faster chasing pack (comprised of Hamilton, and the hypothetical Ferrari pair).

Tell me how much gap would he need to protect himself from the 1 lap later that LH ran after FA's 1st pit stop? more than the 1 sec last year's cars had to stay away from each other to not lose all the aero?

[kilcoo316]

Yes, as soon as the correct evidence is presented to you, differing from the false one you provided to support your argument, it suddenly has no relevance to the core of the argument, classic loser's tactic.

F1.com has been wrong before.

Your assumption is you have the correct information.


Regardless, it is irrelevant.


Alonso pitted prior to the crash. The Red bulls pitted after the crash but before the safety car was deployed.

The key factor is that Renault would have had to know the Red Bulls could (and would) pit prior to the safety car being deployed.

Note that your reading comprehension suffers, spinning on purpose is attributed to HK, not to PK, big advantage is attributed to LH & FA, regardless of how/why their teammate hypothetically spun.

You did not say hypothetically. You asserted "just as it happened to FA" that is a clear inference of intent on Piquet's part.


If you were writing a statement of work for an engineering company, you'd get crapped on from a great height on the back of that statement.

Was Alonso at the head of the field when the safety car came in after Piquet's crash?

Yes or no.

Yes, he was the first car that did not need to pit or serve a penalty, that is all that matters

If you want to be pedantic and argue over lap numbers 12/13/14/15...

WAS ALONSO AT THE HEAD OF THE FIELD WHEN THE SAFETY CAR PITTED... YES OR NO?

(I would like to think a simple binary answer would not be beyond you)

FA did not need a blocker, his 1st pit was long and took alot of fuel(more evidence that it may have been planned) and so therefore LH pitted a grand total of 1 lap later than FA on the 2nd pitstop, FA could have kept up enough gap without DC to prevent being leapfrogged by the 1 lap difference.

Absolute rubbish. Absolute rubbish and you know it.

Having to get out and do a lap on relatively cold (and unknown tyres) costs the driver that pits first significant amounts of time.

We have seen dozens of examples where 1 lap is enough to overtake the driver that pitted first.


I also notice you have disregarded the two Ferraris. Interesting considering Massa was the fastest man of the weekend, and would have had an even greater probability of beating Alonso.

Tell me how much gap would he need to protect himself from the 1 lap later that LH ran after FA's 1st pit stop? more than the 1 sec last year's cars had to stay away from each other to not lose all the aero?

1 second between cars due to aerodynamics?

How on earth did Hamilton manage to overtake Coulthard if he could not get within 1 second of him?

Hmmm.... does not compute.



You'll need to go back and dream up another argument that is not built on quicksand.

[xpensive]

I liked you better as aerodynamicist...I think, Paddy.
Lars