2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

I think the critical problem in Austria was not top speed (or at least not with DRS), it was T3 where Lando was unable to out traction Verstappen to T4. This forced Norris to attack into T3 just like in the sprint (where he lost it at T4). I'm not confident we wouldn't get a massive lunge by Verstappen in T4 even if Lando made the overtake.

Sure, having better top speed and gain more on the straight would have helped even more but I think it's likely they went with more downforce to keep the tyres alive.

[LionsHeart]

I would like to point out a couple of things that are very important, but which were overlooked due to the collision between the two fastest drivers at the moment.

The top speed is still very much lacking. We need to continue to solve this problem. And also prepare an effective package for low downforce tracks.

With a higher top speed, Lando would have been able to catch up and pass the Red Bull earlier, making it easier to pass his rivals. In fact, this is now the main weak point of the car. If it had the efficiency on straights of the 2020 and 2021 cars, it would be priceless.

Do you have examples?

The tops speed across many laps between the two drivers when DRS is not in use was very similar when I looked.

But that's not the problem. The problem is the effectiveness of the DRS. Lando's top speed is at the bottom of the table. And that's with his constant attack with the inclusion of DRS and getting slipstream from Red Bull. If the top speed had been faster and higher, Lando would have easily passed Max long before the braking zone. This partly explains why Lando had to attack more aggressively in the braking zone, including divebombing.

[mwillems]

I think the critical problem in Austria was not top speed (or at least not with DRS), it was T3 where Lando was unable to out traction Verstappen to T4. This forced Norris to attack into T3 just like in the sprint (where he lost it at T4). I'm not confident we wouldn't get a massive lunge by Verstappen in T4 even if Lando made the overtake.

Sure, having better top speed and gain more on the straight would have helped even more but I think it's likely they went with more downforce to keep the tyres alive.

Yeah, T3 was the biggest loss.

[LionsHeart]

I think the critical problem in Austria was not top speed (or at least not with DRS), it was T3 where Lando was unable to out traction Verstappen to T4. This forced Norris to attack into T3 just like in the sprint (where he lost it at T4). I'm not confident we wouldn't get a massive lunge by Verstappen in T4 even if Lando made the overtake.

Sure, having better top speed and gain more on the straight would have helped even more but I think it's likely they went with more downforce to keep the tyres alive.

I can try to explain why it is easier to attack in T3 than in T4. The exit from T1 is easier than from T3, also the speed at the exit of the corner is higher. The long straight between T1 and T3. Hard braking before T3. Braking in T3 occurs on an uphill slope, which makes it a little easier to choose the point of the initial braking phase. All this helps in attacking.

The entry and exit to T3 is awkward, the turn is sharp, and the speed is the slowest. Here you can extrapolate Barcelona, ​​when there was a slow chicane in sector 3, and then the last high-speed turn. And the car behind is always a lot of meters behind the car in front. One of the reasons for this is the wide rear tires and a powerful engine, which allows for effective and quick acceleration. Look at the onboard of the Barcelona race in recent years, when there was a chicane. In the chicane itself, there can be a one-meter difference between the cars, then the car in front exits the chicane and quickly accelerates to the last turn and then onto the straight. By this point, the distance between the cars can be more than 50 meters. Therefore, it was difficult to overtake in Barcelona. Now it is much easier. And this is visible on the onboards. Without a chicane, the difference between the cars is on average 15-20 meters, which then allows for overtaking with DRS.

And here at the Red Bull Ring we have the same thing. Before T3 the gap between cars can be less than a metre, then exit T3 and the car in front can develop enough acceleration so that the car behind can’t overtake in time. Moreover, T4 goes downhill, which lengthens the braking zone, and therefore the point of the braking phase is a little more difficult to find, since even a small mistake can lead to a drive into the gravel.

[FittingMechanics]

I think the critical problem in Austria was not top speed (or at least not with DRS), it was T3 where Lando was unable to out traction Verstappen to T4. This forced Norris to attack into T3 just like in the sprint (where he lost it at T4). I'm not confident we wouldn't get a massive lunge by Verstappen in T4 even if Lando made the overtake.

Sure, having better top speed and gain more on the straight would have helped even more but I think it's likely they went with more downforce to keep the tyres alive.

I can try to explain why it is easier to attack in T3 than in T4. The exit from T1 is easier than from T3, also the speed at the exit of the corner is higher. The long straight between T1 and T3. Hard braking before T3. Braking in T3 occurs on an uphill slope, which makes it a little easier to choose the point of the initial braking phase. All this helps in attacking.

The entry and exit to T3 is awkward, the turn is sharp, and the speed is the slowest. Here you can extrapolate Barcelona, ​​when there was a slow chicane in sector 3, and then the last high-speed turn. And the car behind is always a lot of meters behind the car in front. One of the reasons for this is the wide rear tires and a powerful engine, which allows for effective and quick acceleration. Look at the onboard of the Barcelona race in recent years, when there was a chicane. In the chicane itself, there can be a one-meter difference between the cars, then the car in front exits the chicane and quickly accelerates to the last turn and then onto the straight. By this point, the distance between the cars can be more than 50 meters. Therefore, it was difficult to overtake in Barcelona. Now it is much easier. And this is visible on the onboards. Without a chicane, the difference between the cars is on average 15-20 meters, which then allows for overtaking with DRS.

And here at the Red Bull Ring we have the same thing. Before T3 the gap between cars can be less than a metre, then exit T3 and the car in front can develop enough acceleration so that the car behind can’t overtake in time. Moreover, T4 goes downhill, which lengthens the braking zone, and therefore the point of the braking phase is a little more difficult to find, since even a small mistake can lead to a drive into the gravel.

Good explanation and I agree. I just think that the traction out of T3 is the reason why Norris was unable to make the easier overtake for the win. T4 is a harder corner, Verstappen can't defend the inside as easily because Norris can then do the switchback (like Piastri). If he defend the outside then Norris can go on the inside and force him off.

T3 is such a big hairpin that you can't really get two lines through it so Verstappen can always defend the inside and then force Norris wide.

[LionsHeart]

I think the critical problem in Austria was not top speed (or at least not with DRS), it was T3 where Lando was unable to out traction Verstappen to T4. This forced Norris to attack into T3 just like in the sprint (where he lost it at T4). I'm not confident we wouldn't get a massive lunge by Verstappen in T4 even if Lando made the overtake.

Sure, having better top speed and gain more on the straight would have helped even more but I think it's likely they went with more downforce to keep the tyres alive.

I can try to explain why it is easier to attack in T3 than in T4. The exit from T1 is easier than from T3, also the speed at the exit of the corner is higher. The long straight between T1 and T3. Hard braking before T3. Braking in T3 occurs on an uphill slope, which makes it a little easier to choose the point of the initial braking phase. All this helps in attacking.

The entry and exit to T3 is awkward, the turn is sharp, and the speed is the slowest. Here you can extrapolate Barcelona, ​​when there was a slow chicane in sector 3, and then the last high-speed turn. And the car behind is always a lot of meters behind the car in front. One of the reasons for this is the wide rear tires and a powerful engine, which allows for effective and quick acceleration. Look at the onboard of the Barcelona race in recent years, when there was a chicane. In the chicane itself, there can be a one-meter difference between the cars, then the car in front exits the chicane and quickly accelerates to the last turn and then onto the straight. By this point, the distance between the cars can be more than 50 meters. Therefore, it was difficult to overtake in Barcelona. Now it is much easier. And this is visible on the onboards. Without a chicane, the difference between the cars is on average 15-20 meters, which then allows for overtaking with DRS.

And here at the Red Bull Ring we have the same thing. Before T3 the gap between cars can be less than a metre, then exit T3 and the car in front can develop enough acceleration so that the car behind can’t overtake in time. Moreover, T4 goes downhill, which lengthens the braking zone, and therefore the point of the braking phase is a little more difficult to find, since even a small mistake can lead to a drive into the gravel.

Good explanation and I agree. I just think that the traction out of T3 is the reason why Norris was unable to make the easier overtake for the win. T4 is a harder corner, Verstappen can't defend the inside as easily because Norris can then do the switchback (like Piastri). If he defend the outside then Norris can go on the inside and force him off.

T3 is such a big hairpin that you can't really get two lines through it so Verstappen can always defend the inside and then force Norris wide.

Yes, something like that. And Max was constantly pressing against Lando, no matter which side they tried to pass him from, so Max doesn't let Lando's trajectory cross and, accordingly, Lando loses time at the exit from T3.

[FittingMechanics]

Yes, something like that. And Max was constantly pressing against Lando, no matter which side they tried to pass him from, so Max doesn't let Lando's trajectory cross and, accordingly, Lando loses time at the exit from T3.

Lando needs to analyze this. Maybe he could have tried to stay in the tracks of Verstappen and see if he can follow him. I don't think he tried to stay behind him like this in any attack. With the way this went I am sure he will have many more opportunities where

Btw - as I watched live one thing that was very obvious to me was how much more stable McLaren looked in those laps. Verstappen was sliding and taking wider lines, this was especially noticeable in T6 (I had a good view of it) but looking at the replay I can see it in T10 as well. He really lost those tires fast.

I am also amused by his (Max) immediate complaints how something is wrong with the car while they are driving fastest of anyone in the race.

[CjC]

Yes, something like that. And Max was constantly pressing against Lando, no matter which side they tried to pass him from, so Max doesn't let Lando's trajectory cross and, accordingly, Lando loses time at the exit from T3.

Lando needs to analyze this. Maybe he could have tried to stay in the tracks of Verstappen and see if he can follow him. I don't think he tried to stay behind him like this in any attack. With the way this went I am sure he will have many more opportunities where

Btw - as I watched live one thing that was very obvious to me was how much more stable McLaren looked in those laps. Verstappen was sliding and taking wider lines, this was especially noticeable in T6 (I had a good view of it) but looking at the replay I can see it in T10 as well. He really lost those tires fast.

I am also amused by his (Max) immediate complaints how something is wrong with the car while they are driving fastest of anyone in the race.

There was something wrong with his car because he couldn’t drop Lando. If he was able to grab Lando then the car would have been simply lovely.

[LionsHeart]

Yes, something like that. And Max was constantly pressing against Lando, no matter which side they tried to pass him from, so Max doesn't let Lando's trajectory cross and, accordingly, Lando loses time at the exit from T3.

Lando needs to analyze this. Maybe he could have tried to stay in the tracks of Verstappen and see if he can follow him. I don't think he tried to stay behind him like this in any attack. With the way this went I am sure he will have many more opportunities where

Btw - as I watched live one thing that was very obvious to me was how much more stable McLaren looked in those laps. Verstappen was sliding and taking wider lines, this was especially noticeable in T6 (I had a good view of it) but looking at the replay I can see it in T10 as well. He really lost those tires fast.

I am also amused by his (Max) immediate complaints how something is wrong with the car while they are driving fastest of anyone in the race.

Yes, I was also surprised when I saw how fast Max was driving, but he claimed that the tires weren't working, were sliding, etc. Technically, Max should have won. But the mechanics had a pit stop, and then the tires locked up in T4, and Max finally lost all the advantage he had.

I kept telling myself the whole race that Lando deserved second place. But then the race took on new colors and the last thing I wanted was a collision between them. We have what we have. This will benefit Lando in the future.

And another positive. McLaren's chassis has learned to save tires. This is very important, because I'm making a direct comparison with Red Bull, which hasn't had any problems with this in recent years. Even the start of the 2024 season showed how strong Red Bull is, not to mention 2023.

Now Lando is able to drive up at the end of the stints, slightly leveling out the gap he had at the beginning. Or maybe the team just set up the car with an eye on the race.

[_cerber1]

The McLaren driver noted that as a result of the damage received in the collision with the Red Bull and the need to return to the pits on three wheels, his car received very severe damage.

Norris's greatest concern is that new underbody parts have been destroyed, which the team may not have time to prepare for the upcoming British Grand Prix.

“All the best updated car parts can be thrown into the trash. Given the struggle we are in, we don't have a lot of room to maneuver - in terms of new products, budget restrictions, and so on.

My car was completely destroyed - and we needed all these parts for the next Grand Prix. So the consequences of what happened are not only what happened on the track right now, we will also have to deal with the consequences at Silverstone, and our team will be at a disadvantage.

[CjC]

New underbody parts?
Is that referring to the floor? Or new parts within the car?
I don’t recall a new floor coming to the car for some time now…. Maybe Miami?

[Zaamy]

From one of Oscar’s mechanics, sounds like it’ll be OK

[CjC]

You know everything will be alright when there is a Baz about

[FittingMechanics]

I think Norris was just being emotional and trying to increase the "damage" that Verstappen did.

Worst part about this is that we will have more of this and corresponding heartbreak instead of good clean racing.

[mwillems]

I would like to point out a couple of things that are very important, but which were overlooked due to the collision between the two fastest drivers at the moment.

The top speed is still very much lacking. We need to continue to solve this problem. And also prepare an effective package for low downforce tracks.

With a higher top speed, Lando would have been able to catch up and pass the Red Bull earlier, making it easier to pass his rivals. In fact, this is now the main weak point of the car. If it had the efficiency on straights of the 2020 and 2021 cars, it would be priceless.

Do you have examples?

The tops speed across many laps between the two drivers when DRS is not in use was very similar when I looked.

But that's not the problem. The problem is the effectiveness of the DRS. Lando's top speed is at the bottom of the table. And that's with his constant attack with the inclusion of DRS and getting slipstream from Red Bull. If the top speed had been faster and higher, Lando would have easily passed Max long before the braking zone. This partly explains why Lando had to attack more aggressively in the braking zone, including divebombing.

As FittingMechanics says, I think the real problem was elsewhere. T3 was the main culprit and Max was dominant here, but also getting good exits elsewhere.