AR3-GP wrote: ↑07 Jul 2024, 22:19
Juzh wrote: ↑07 Jul 2024, 22:17
For the first time since 2020 copse was flat in the race. Verstappen did it a few times after he passed norris. Entry ~300 kmh, apex ~286 kmh.
What causes them to scrub so much speed at the apex? Energy must be consumed somewhere. I wonder if you can compare how much speed each car dropped. I suspect the cars with a better front end scrub less.
The issue with RB20 is the stiff front suspension (which is an aero imposed requirement) which is even stiffer than RB19. The performance delta of RB19 from other cars was so much that the RedBull's limitation never fully came to light (it did a bit, in Singapore and LasVegas, Monaco was saved because of that blitzing S3 from Max and poor tyre call by AstonMartin in the race). They wanted to fix it in 2024 and though they improved slow turns, bumps and kerbs became worst. In high speed turns where the slip angle on tyres isn't much (long radius they are) , the aero-press from front wing and floor is keeping the front tyres nailed. In slow and medium turns, where slip angle is more, it doesn't matter even if the front wing and floor produce enough downforce, the suspension is so stiff that the front tyres are not pressing enough into the tarmac. We saw this most recently in Silverstone, low track temps and greasy with water => even more glaring this adhesion limitation is. This is understeer - tyre sliding more and heating up more, graining up more etc. On dry and hot track (Austria), this limitation gets masked.
And because they have to 'match' the rear somewhat with front, in the interest of balance, they have to make the rear stiff too => low speed traction from corner exits too suffers in low track temps and greasy tarmac.
Of course, this verbal diarrhoea of mine, is 'armchair theory'.
GrizzleBoy wrote: ↑07 Jul 2024, 22:20
organic wrote: ↑07 Jul 2024, 21:23
Looking at oscar's pace on the mediums, Lando would've won had they fitted new mediums on the car
But looking at Landos pace on the softs..............that's what I'm saying. If the mediums were going to be faster, it would have been "slower in the beginning, but faster over the stint" type faster.
But dropping his pace to medium tyre levels would've just put him in Maxs clutches earlier on, with a more durable tyre to fight with Max with, putting even more of a buffer behind Lewis as they battled away.
The popular opinion right now is
"McLaren went on used S instead of new M for Lando, and the win was gone with that". I don't think it's that simple. Remember Hamilton was on used S as well, and McLaren is car that is good with tyre longevity on any track at any temperature, on any compound, so there was no reason to suspect that despite Hamilton's tyre whisperer credentials, Lando wouldn't have caught him. Afterall, a marginal tyre choice is a lottery, despite all the algorithms and models at their disposal, especially on a low temp track.
I think the real reason Lando lost pace on used S was his out-lap. He hammered it straightaway and took life out of it. Whereas Hamilton was gentler. This, I think is the reason he couldn't catch and pass Hamilton for the lead, which would have given him a nice "buffer" between himself and a rampaging Max who didn't need to bother anything about tyre life and could thrash his new H right from put exit, as it boiled down to 12-13 continuous quali-style attack laps for him.
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑07 Jul 2024, 22:45
Great to see a has-been driver beat his better young-gun team mate and then go on to beat the best driver in the history of the world ever driving a faster car. Quite something for a tired old lag. No wonder he was emotional at setting yet another record.
Mate, the emotion is understandable, but calling the RedBull the faster car is plain wrong. The McLaren was the fastest car, the Mercedes a close second (because of the low track temps) and the Redbull a distant third, yesterday, on that low temp greasy track with changing weather. It was purely strategy class from Redbull and strategy blunders from McLaren
(who, I'm noticing are never the first ones to pit proactively and force others to follow, they are always 'reacting', sometimes two laps later even when the dropping laptimes are staring them in the face) that pumped Max upto the podium. On performance merit, the Redbull deserved only P5/P6.
Dunlay wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024, 03:07
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024, 01:09
Norris simply hasn't been in enough fights for the win but he will learn. If we actually think about it, he is immature racing wise and is not really ready to fight for a championship till he gets a few more wins under his belt and doing so in a more commanding fashion too..
What a difference a year makes! Same guy kept a charging Mercedes of Lewis on better tyres behind and took 2nd last year.
He doesn't lack anything in racing terms. The equipment plays a big role and this race, the car didn't do well on Softs. Seems like Medium tyre was better on a green track as Piastri had better pace.
Agree, I too think this 'botched it up' is blown out of proportion. Remember, fighting for P1 is not only new for Lando, it's also new for the team as a whole (for the majority of the people currently there, please dont bring in Ron Dennis era). I am confident the human machinery will work flawlessly in the 2nd half of 2024 and in 2025, McLaren & Lando are most likely the dominant force.
