Concept power units from 2030

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
DenBommer
DenBommer
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Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:22
the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?
Only on the front wheels?

Or, since I do believe they can make these very compact and lightweight in F1, maybe a single motor on the front axle and one between the engine and the gearbox, or on the rear axle.

In any case, a lot of energy can be recovered from the front wheels.

And this without making significant changes to the chassis.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:35
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:22
the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?
Only on the front wheels?
Or, since I do believe they can make these very compact and lightweight in F1, maybe a single motor on the front axle and one between the engine and the gearbox, or on the rear axle.
In any case, a lot of energy can be recovered from the front wheels.
And this without making significant changes to the chassis.
or have your 4 MGs and the ICE with no gears
1000 rpm round Loew's hairpin

DenBommer
DenBommer
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Joined: 09 May 2023, 14:20

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:47
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:35
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:22
the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?
Only on the front wheels?
Or, since I do believe they can make these very compact and lightweight in F1, maybe a single motor on the front axle and one between the engine and the gearbox, or on the rear axle.
In any case, a lot of energy can be recovered from the front wheels.
And this without making significant changes to the chassis.
or have your 4 MGs and the ICE with no gears
1000 rpm round Loew's hairpin
Or something like the koeningsegg direct drive

I still do believe hub motors have a future in F1.

Maybe not within 10/15 years.

I've moved away from the idea that the driver can control torque vectoring themselves. I think in F1, starting from 2026, they'll have more to adjust themselves, like active aerodynamics and maybe also active suspension.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering systems as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on 22 Jul 2024, 14:28, edited 1 time in total.

DenBommer
DenBommer
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Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:25
with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering mechanisms as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?
And do you have a preference for AWD?

Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?

Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:28
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:25
with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering mechanisms as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?
And do you have a preference for AWD?
Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?
well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb

DenBommer
DenBommer
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Joined: 09 May 2023, 14:20

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:32
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:28
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:25
with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering mechanisms as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?
And do you have a preference for AWD?
Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?
well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb
But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:46
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:32
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:28

And do you have a preference for AWD?
Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?
well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb
But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?
It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!

DenBommer
DenBommer
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Joined: 09 May 2023, 14:20

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Zynerji wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:58
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:46
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:32

well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb
But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?
It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!
Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 15:08
Zynerji wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:58
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:46


But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?
It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!
Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?
Meh. I like lots of things and tumble through the concepts. Folks here seem to believe that I get stuck on certain viewpoints, but that is not the case. I'm down for the jet-electric AWD, supercharged 1.5l i5 with VLIM/VLEM, or 2005 v10s with synth fuel.

As long as it's exciting and "crazy tech", I'm in!

DenBommer
DenBommer
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Joined: 09 May 2023, 14:20

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Zynerji wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 15:33
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 15:08
Zynerji wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:58


It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!
Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?
Meh. I like lots of things and tumble through the concepts. Folks here seem to believe that I get stuck on certain viewpoints, but that is not the case. I'm down for the jet-electric AWD, supercharged 1.5l i5 with VLIM/VLEM, or 2005 v10s with synth fuel.

As long as it's exciting and "crazy tech", I'm in!
Sometimes I think that with AWD, the car becomes too easy to drive. Do you think this as well?

On the other hand, I suspect that cars today are easier to drive than those from, say, 30 years ago.


I like to see nostalgia mixed with technology.

Ideally, I would have an NA V8 with a power output of 700 hp, HCCI ignition, superlubricity supported by 4 wheel-mounted electric motors each producing 100 hp (with regenerative braking, of course), active aerodynamics, and electromagnetic suspension.

With the batteries integrated into the chassis or forming the chassis itself.

DenBommer
DenBommer
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Joined: 09 May 2023, 14:20

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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Or a V8 with an axial or radial flux motor (like the Dark Matter from Koenigsegg) with high-tech batteries integrated into or attached to the chassis. It's simpler, I think, and especially: less is more.

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 17:06
Zynerji wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 15:33
DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 15:08


Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?
Meh. I like lots of things and tumble through the concepts. Folks here seem to believe that I get stuck on certain viewpoints, but that is not the case. I'm down for the jet-electric AWD, supercharged 1.5l i5 with VLIM/VLEM, or 2005 v10s with synth fuel.

As long as it's exciting and "crazy tech", I'm in!
Sometimes I think that with AWD, the car becomes too easy to drive. Do you think this as well?

On the other hand, I suspect that cars today are easier to drive than those from, say, 30 years ago.


I like to see nostalgia mixed with technology.

Ideally, I would have an NA V8 with a power output of 700 hp, HCCI ignition, superlubricity supported by 4 wheel-mounted electric motors each producing 100 hp (with regenerative braking, of course), active aerodynamics, and electromagnetic suspension.

With the batteries integrated into the chassis or forming the chassis itself.
I only know that my wife is 100% corrupted by her AWD vehicle "sorting out" parts of her driving, and will never be able to return to a FWD vehicle ever again! :-) :lol:

mzso
mzso
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Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: Concept power units from 2030

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:22
the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?
How so? I don't see the 8 gear ratios being much benefit for the electric motors. Only which allows for the highest RPM for the E motors is interesting, because that allows for the highest power density. And that you don't need to sacrifice for wheel motors.
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 11:47
or have your 4 MGs and the ICE with no gears
1000 rpm round Loew's hairpin
Huh? ICE with no gears? That's impossible.
Tommy Cookers wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 14:25
with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering systems as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?
I think that would only work as a tire shredder and not something that's fast...
I'm reminded of the video when a heavy tracked vehicle did a 180 and completely destroyed the pavement.

mzso
mzso
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Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: Concept power units from 2030

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DenBommer wrote:
22 Jul 2024, 13:51
I still do believe hub motors have a future in F1.

Maybe not within 10/15 years.
We could have hub motors right now. It entirely depends of the arbitrary rules of the formula. If it would say you can have four motors, but only placed inside the rims then that is what we would have.
But seeing the attitudes around today, I don't see it happening.