2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[PierreW]

Strange that Red Bull got nerfed at the same time that McLaren brought a defacto 2.0 car in Miami.
Similar happened to other teams (Ferrari) who no longer can fight with McLaren.
Also strange that Mercedes gained performance later on (maybe unnerf?).

I am not serious, I am just trying to make a point that a simpler explanation is that McLaren brought a better car in Miami and that exposed Red Bull weaknesses. Without McLaren, you would have had a winning Red Bull in many races after Miami with Mercedes winning in a rain affected Silverstone.

Miami - VER P1
Imola - VER P1
Monaco - VER P4
Canada - VER P1
Spain - VER P1
Austria - VER P1
Silverstone - VER P2
Hungary - VER P1

There was no nerf. McLaren just brought a great car and started to challenge.

Perez, you forget Perez.

Perez performance dropped like a stone when the Red Bull car went backward. Before that, he was performing very well.

Perez always show what the car can do with an average driver.

Verstappen is doing miracles with this car curretnly.

[johnny vee]

So it's probaby 99% certain that Max will take a new power unit for Spa. By tge looks of it he will have to do a complete power unit, CE and ES too, so definitely starting from the back. My question, would Redbull opt to do the same with Perez?
As Perez might not drive after Spa, an extra new powerunit will help the incoming driver for the last 10 races. As I understand from the rules the PowerUnits are linked to the car not the driver. So if Ricciardo moves to RBR he will use the PU allocation that Perez's car had.

[FittingMechanics]

Strange that Red Bull got nerfed at the same time that McLaren brought a defacto 2.0 car in Miami.
Similar happened to other teams (Ferrari) who no longer can fight with McLaren.
Also strange that Mercedes gained performance later on (maybe unnerf?).

I am not serious, I am just trying to make a point that a simpler explanation is that McLaren brought a better car in Miami and that exposed Red Bull weaknesses. Without McLaren, you would have had a winning Red Bull in many races after Miami with Mercedes winning in a rain affected Silverstone.

Miami - VER P1
Imola - VER P1
Monaco - VER P4
Canada - VER P1
Spain - VER P1
Austria - VER P1
Silverstone - VER P2
Hungary - VER P1

There was no nerf. McLaren just brought a great car and started to challenge.

Perez, you forget Perez.

Perez performance dropped like a stone when the Red Bull car went backward. Before that, he was performing very well.

Perez always show what the car can do with an average driver.

Verstappen is doing miracles with this car curretnly.

But Perez had similar falloff (maybe less pronounced) even last year. The fact remains, if the car has a big performance advantage they don't need to set it up on the edge and Perez can drive it easier. If you get a team bring a big upgrade (McLaren) and now you need to extract the maximum from the car, the car becomes harder to drive. It perfectly fits with McLaren having a big update that causes the weakness (car on edge hard to drive) to show up.

[Paa]

what is strange about this nerfed suspension theory, is that, was it true, after almost 3 months you would hear much more people talking about it, not to mention Zak! I mean he hates Red Bull like hell, I don't think he would be quiet about this knowing that most of the gap Max/Red Bull gained over Lando/McLaren was made with a supposed illegal component

instead there are very few (questionable) sources that spoke about it, last Antonio Lobato (Spanish TV commentator) who is known for make up things; let's see if in the coming weeks this theory gets some more supporters.

Zak making noise wouldn't make sense after the nerf. Usually they do these kind of talks publicly to pressure FIA to make a move. There is no point in lobbying after it happened. It is much better to just praise his team for the incredible job they did to catch up. (Which they did indeed, regardless of nerf)

[Sergej]

So it's probaby 99% certain that Max will take a new power unit for Spa. By tge looks of it he will have to do a complete power unit, CE and ES too, so definitely starting from the back. My question, would Redbull opt to do the same with Perez?
As Perez might not drive after Spa, an extra new powerunit will help the incoming driver for the last 10 races. As I understand from the rules the PowerUnits are linked to the car not the driver. So if Ricciardo moves to RBR he will use the PU allocation that Perez's car had.

not sure anymore they will take the engine penalty in Spa, it could be one of the few remaining races it's possible to win, if so they should take advantage of it imho

also, it would be a relief to go to summer break with a win after the last messy race

[Paa]

Yes, I agree. They should take the engine penalty where it is less likely to finish ahead of McLaren anyway. Any chance they see they could get ahead, they should take it. So probably it is best to decide after free practices, or even qualy.

Last years it was different logic as they went for the win even with the penalty, so they just chose the track where it is easier to get ahead and that's all.

[Harvester]

Its how Max has always been, I dont see why anyone is surprised. If you win races comfortably with little effort there is no reason to be upset, so nobody saw that side of him for a while.

You are talking with little sense.

Max would not have complained a bit if the strategy set up by the team had not put him at big disadvantage twice. He would have settled third, doing what he can with this car. You don't choose to let Hamilton and Leclerc undercut you again after seeing how hard it was to overtake.

That's was infuriating. Max is doing miracles to try to salvage a team with a diminished car, wrong development path, weakening pit stops and calls, and now just downright terrible strategy.

Max won't accept mediocrity and shouldn't. I am all for him to put pressure on the team to perform better.

I don't think their strategy was bad at all.Things can not always go your way. They realised that they can do nothing about mclarens so they tried staying longer and hoping for safety car. If there was safety car after mclarens pitted they would have won the race and everyone would say it was masterful strategy.
This strategy was the only way they could have possibility to win.
And if Max didn't lose his cool he could have still be on podium.

[PierreW]

Its how Max has always been, I dont see why anyone is surprised. If you win races comfortably with little effort there is no reason to be upset, so nobody saw that side of him for a while.

You are talking with little sense.

Max would not have complained a bit if the strategy set up by the team had not put him at big disadvantage twice. He would have settled third, doing what he can with this car. You don't choose to let Hamilton and Leclerc undercut you again after seeing how hard it was to overtake.

That's was infuriating. Max is doing miracles to try to salvage a team with a diminished car, wrong development path, weakening pit stops and calls, and now just downright terrible strategy.

Max won't accept mediocrity and shouldn't. I am all for him to put pressure on the team to perform better.

I don't think their strategy was bad at all.Things can not always go your way. They realised that they can do nothing about mclarens so they tried staying longer and hoping for safety car. If there was safety car after mclarens pitted they would have won the race and everyone would say it was masterful strategy.
This strategy was the only way they could have possibility to win.
And if Max didn't lose his cool he could have still be on podium.

Not really.

Max with this strategy was 1% likely to finish ahead of P3 , 20% of chance to finish P3 and 79% of chance to finish outside of the podium.

With countering the undercut and stopping firth he was like 90% likely to finish P3 and 10% below.

You underestimate how hard it was to overtake. It was nearly impossible.

You underestimate how much time Max lost due to staying on track long. At that point, even with a safetycar, the McLaren would still have had the time to regain P1 and P2 before Max could end his pitstop.

[Harvester]

You are talking with little sense.

Max would not have complained a bit if the strategy set up by the team had not put him at big disadvantage twice. He would have settled third, doing what he can with this car. You don't choose to let Hamilton and Leclerc undercut you again after seeing how hard it was to overtake.

That's was infuriating. Max is doing miracles to try to salvage a team with a diminished car, wrong development path, weakening pit stops and calls, and now just downright terrible strategy.

Max won't accept mediocrity and shouldn't. I am all for him to put pressure on the team to perform better.

I don't think their strategy was bad at all.Things can not always go your way. They realised that they can do nothing about mclarens so they tried staying longer and hoping for safety car. If there was safety car after mclarens pitted they would have won the race and everyone would say it was masterful strategy.
This strategy was the only way they could have possibility to win.
And if Max didn't lose his cool he could have still be on podium.

Not really.

Max with this strategy was 1% likely to finish ahead of P3 , 20% of chance to finish P3 and 79% of chance to finish outside of the podium.

With countering the undercut and stopping firth he was like 90% likely to finish P3 and 10% below.

You underestimate how hard it was to overtake. It was nearly impossible.

You underestimate how much time Max lost due to staying on track long. At that point, even with a safetycar, the McLaren would still have had the time to regain P1 and P2 before Max could end his pitstop.

So with countering undercut 0% of winning.

With this strategy I don't agree it is just 1%. (but still better than 0% ). In case of safety car being on fresh rubber and just behind Mclarens gives him few options. If he can not overtake he will always be a threat to try undercut during next pitstop.

[Xyz22]

Strange that Red Bull got nerfed at the same time that McLaren brought a defacto 2.0 car in Miami.
Similar happened to other teams (Ferrari) who no longer can fight with McLaren.
Also strange that Mercedes gained performance later on (maybe unnerf?).

I am not serious, I am just trying to make a point that a simpler explanation is that McLaren brought a better car in Miami and that exposed Red Bull weaknesses. Without McLaren, you would have had a winning Red Bull in many races after Miami with Mercedes winning in a rain affected Silverstone.

Miami - VER P1
Imola - VER P1
Monaco - VER P4
Canada - VER P1
Spain - VER P1
Austria - VER P1
Silverstone - VER P2
Hungary - VER P1

There was no nerf. McLaren just brought a great car and started to challenge.

Perez, you forget Perez.

Perez performance dropped like a stone when the Red Bull car went backward. Before that, he was performing very well.

Perez always show what the car can do with an average driver.

Verstappen is doing miracles with this car curretnly.

Perez is performing way below average.
He was looking good this weekend but --- up in qualifying.

[Dunlay]

[Xyz22]

Yeah this is really, really bad.

Something has gone wrong, for sure. The fact that Perez was so much closer to Max than usual probabaly means the upgrade package didn't really work at all.

[Gillian]

Yeah this is really, really bad.

Something has gone wrong, for sure. The fact that Perez was so much closer to Max than usual probabaly means the upgrade package didn't really work at all.

Depends on how you look at it. If you take into account Verstappen is leaving then upgrading your car to be more suitable for Perez (or in general a broeder range of drivers) makes a lot of sense to me.

[Curbstone]

Jeopardize this year's title because Verstappen would be leaving next year...?? That's just silly.

[Xyz22]

Yeah this is really, really bad.

Something has gone wrong, for sure. The fact that Perez was so much closer to Max than usual probabaly means the upgrade package didn't really work at all.

Depends on how you look at it. If you take into account Verstappen is leaving then upgrading your car to be more suitable for Perez (or in general a broeder range of drivers) makes a lot of sense to me.

This doesn't make a lot of sense. Betting on Perez long term doesn't seem a very good strategy.

What is happening with Red Bull, Aston Martin, Ferrari and Mercedes to an extent is that they are seeing significant improvements in CFD, Wind Tunnel and in the Simulator but not so much in the track.