2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Hoffman900]

The real money for the teams is the WCC as their payout is linked to that.

Remember, Mclaren has foreign investors who want to see a return. A higher payout is less money they need to invest in (and more they take out as profit), more money sponsors pay, and higher profit the investors make.

And investor profit is all about what F1 is now in the Concorde / cost cap era. The cost ceiling is set, and everyone on top of that is investor profit.

Of course, WDC gets the headlines, but WCC pays the bills.

Yeah the investors definitely want some money back given how much they have supported not only the team and the Automotive group.

But last year RB got 9m more than Merc with a season that was ridiculously dominant. RB got £22m more than Mclaren who finished fourth. There will be sponsors payouts too, but most likely for both standings. But is this offset by the glamour of a WDC bringing in greater sponsorship?

I'm not sure where the numbers lie, but I don't feel that the WCC is a gamechanger compared to the WDC in terms of money. Especially since you are talking about finishing either 1st or 2nd in the constructors with a drivers champion so you're probably not losing many millions.

Mclaren racing, as an entity including their other series, became self sustainable in the previous financial year, so Zak Brown has said. Doesn't mean they are making much money of course, but they are at least no longer requiring support in FY 2023. This year will see a bigger driver wage bill but income should be significantly up.

Not sure why Stella is more focussed on the WCC, but he has a different focus than many people in the sport, this focus has transformed Mclaren and the WCC is the team championship, so I guess, why not.

When I was younger I would support the driver more than the team, now it is the other way round and I see drivers as employees, so I'm happy to prioritise a WCC over WDC. That said, I'd dearly love to see Lando, or if not him then Oscar, win a WDC.

They way driver’s contracts are structured, I have to imagine the WDC is a nicer payout for the drivers where the WCC is where the real money is for the team.

[mwillems]

I hope Norris either puts his foot down and demands to have priority, or thinks about his future at the team.

To carry the team on his back for so long and then be treated like that is insane.

I know. Such a selfless guy. £20m plus all the hard work of a team behind him able to deliver a championship car without having to sit next to Max Verstappen, all coming at around about the time that he is just getting good enough to challenge Max, having been supported by the team to make him mentally stronger and make him as capable as he is today. All done in a way that is a total contrast with how other teams can treat F1 drivers. He really has had to put up with a lot, poor guy.

No sarcasm, just warm truthful humour, my friend

I think he should count himself lucky to be at a team like this, quite honestly, as would any driver. This is where we are today. If he doesn't like it then I don't doubt we could attract any top talent on the grid when they are available. That is the truth of todays Mclaren.

But he does like it and they like him, he's a just a bit butt hurt after seeing a win gone, as he should be. As Stella said, if he was fine with it, then there would be a problem! They guy stayed with Mclaren because he thought they could give him the car F1 drivers dream of, a car that can challenge for the title. They did, so their side of the bargain is nearing being complete from a technical standpoint.

I said many times last year that Lando has to be near perfect for a whole weekend and this was the year to do it. I got the usual stick for saying it. From many angles in here! It's true. He needs to deliver from Friday Afternoon to Sunday evening and get everything almost perfect. That is what that champions were able to achieve. If he had done that and continued to do that, he'd be close to the championship even with the teams cock ups.

[mwillems]

The real money for the teams is the WCC as their payout is linked to that.

Remember, Mclaren has foreign investors who want to see a return. A higher payout is less money they need to invest in (and more they take out as profit), more money sponsors pay, and higher profit the investors make.

And investor profit is all about what F1 is now in the Concorde / cost cap era. The cost ceiling is set, and everyone on top of that is investor profit.

Of course, WDC gets the headlines, but WCC pays the bills.

Yeah the investors definitely want some money back given how much they have supported not only the team and the Automotive group.

But last year RB got 9m more than Merc with a season that was ridiculously dominant. RB got £22m more than Mclaren who finished fourth. There will be sponsors payouts too, but most likely for both standings. But is this offset by the glamour of a WDC bringing in greater sponsorship?

I'm not sure where the numbers lie, but I don't feel that the WCC is a gamechanger compared to the WDC in terms of money. Especially since you are talking about finishing either 1st or 2nd in the constructors with a drivers champion so you're probably not losing many millions.

Mclaren racing, as an entity including their other series, became self sustainable in the previous financial year, so Zak Brown has said. Doesn't mean they are making much money of course, but they are at least no longer requiring support in FY 2023. This year will see a bigger driver wage bill but income should be significantly up.

Not sure why Stella is more focussed on the WCC, but he has a different focus than many people in the sport, this focus has transformed Mclaren and the WCC is the team championship, so I guess, why not.

When I was younger I would support the driver more than the team, now it is the other way round and I see drivers as employees, so I'm happy to prioritise a WCC over WDC. That said, I'd dearly love to see Lando, or if not him then Oscar, win a WDC.

They way driver’s contracts are structured, I have to imagine the WDC is a nicer payout for the drivers where the WCC is where the real money is for the team.

You may be right, it's just that I don't see any evidence for it. I can just imagine ways it could be right, or wrong.

Would love to know, if anyone has anything around the numbers then please post.

[Hoffman900]

Yeah the investors definitely want some money back given how much they have supported not only the team and the Automotive group.

But last year RB got 9m more than Merc with a season that was ridiculously dominant. RB got £22m more than Mclaren who finished fourth. There will be sponsors payouts too, but most likely for both standings. But is this offset by the glamour of a WDC bringing in greater sponsorship?

I'm not sure where the numbers lie, but I don't feel that the WCC is a gamechanger compared to the WDC in terms of money. Especially since you are talking about finishing either 1st or 2nd in the constructors with a drivers champion so you're probably not losing many millions.

Mclaren racing, as an entity including their other series, became self sustainable in the previous financial year, so Zak Brown has said. Doesn't mean they are making much money of course, but they are at least no longer requiring support in FY 2023. This year will see a bigger driver wage bill but income should be significantly up.

Not sure why Stella is more focussed on the WCC, but he has a different focus than many people in the sport, this focus has transformed Mclaren and the WCC is the team championship, so I guess, why not.

When I was younger I would support the driver more than the team, now it is the other way round and I see drivers as employees, so I'm happy to prioritise a WCC over WDC. That said, I'd dearly love to see Lando, or if not him then Oscar, win a WDC.

They way driver’s contracts are structured, I have to imagine the WDC is a nicer payout for the drivers where the WCC is where the real money is for the team.

You may be right, it's just that I don't see any evidence for it. I can just imagine ways it could be right, or wrong.

Would love to know, if anyone has anything around the numbers then please post.

What I know of the Concorde agreement is that it’s driver blind. So revenue sharing / allocation is from the WCC.

The WDC will likely have performance payouts for the drivers, and the leverage teams can use from winning it they can use for their self promotion / sponsorship. Whether that’s enough to say, offset a loss of $20-$30mil in extra revenue is another matter. It might make it easier, but the driver also is going to want more. Supposably Liberty also pays out via pass success, so there is carryover in payout as well.

[mwillems]

They way driver’s contracts are structured, I have to imagine the WDC is a nicer payout for the drivers where the WCC is where the real money is for the team.

You may be right, it's just that I don't see any evidence for it. I can just imagine ways it could be right, or wrong.

Would love to know, if anyone has anything around the numbers then please post.

What I know of the Concorde agreement is that it’s driver blind. So revenue sharing / allocation is from the WCC.

The WDC will likely have performance payouts for the drivers, and the leverage teams can use from winning it they can use for their self promotion / sponsorship. Whether that’s enough to say, offset a loss of $20-$30mil in extra revenue is another matter. It might make it easier, but the driver also is going to want more. Supposably Liberty also pays out via pass success, so there is carryover in payout as well.

It is, but there are other considerations with revenue streams. The payments in prize money are not that significantly different that it could overcome one good sponsor being signed by the team. Between 1st and 2nd, the prize money difference is probably less than a low to mid sized sponsor.

The only thing I don't know is whether a WDC will drive more sponsorship revenue to the glamour and attention it receives, which is traditionally much much more than the WCC. This whole sport is driven by marketing so without knowing those numbers, it's hard to tell.

So I won't disagree with you, it's just that the prize money difference between 1st and 2nd in WCC being £9m just isn't ground-breaking to my mind. That said, I wouldn't mind a slice of it.

[Hoffman900]

You may be right, it's just that I don't see any evidence for it. I can just imagine ways it could be right, or wrong.

Would love to know, if anyone has anything around the numbers then please post.

What I know of the Concorde agreement is that it’s driver blind. So revenue sharing / allocation is from the WCC.

The WDC will likely have performance payouts for the drivers, and the leverage teams can use from winning it they can use for their self promotion / sponsorship. Whether that’s enough to say, offset a loss of $20-$30mil in extra revenue is another matter. It might make it easier, but the driver also is going to want more. Supposably Liberty also pays out via pass success, so there is carryover in payout as well.

It is, but there are other considerations with revenue streams. The payments in prize money are not that significantly different that it could overcome one good sponsor being signed by the team. Between 1st and 2nd, the prize money difference is probably less than a low to mid sized sponsor.

The only thing I don't know is whether a WDC will drive more sponsorship revenue to the glamour and attention it receives, which is traditionally much much more than the WCC. This whole sport is driven by marketing so without knowing those numbers, it's hard to tell.

So I won't disagree with you, it's just that the prize money difference between 1st and 2nd in WCC being £9m just isn't ground-breaking to my mind. That said, I wouldn't mind a slice of it.

I definitely agree.

Really the teams strive for both, and that’s all you can hope for.

[BMMR61]

The championship goalposts have moved quite a lot over the Hungary weekend. Obviously the 1-2 finish with Max down in 5th is beyond expectations. The 1-2 qualifying puts things on a strong footing. But the way Red Bull and Max seem to be more than showing cracks is causing me to rethink on the WDC. After the critics of not favouring Lando started jumping up and down about the WDC prospect I was dismissive. Having a couple of days to process Hungary has shifted my thinking only a little, we do have a more than merely mathematical chance of both titles. The shift in performance and other factors has been big. The Miami upgrade and following produced fewer rewards than should have been possible. If the WDC (or WCC) isn't won by McLaren then perhaps this sequence of races may be seen as where golden opportunities were missed. Max squandering his 76 point lead will only come about through DNFs - crashes, reliability, and maybe this weekend, grid penalties. I doubt that a 7 point sacrifice will be the sole contributor if we end up hanging by a thread.

[BMMR61]

Having been a competitor in other much lower motorsport categories I know how mental the game is. It is so easy to undermine a driver's mentality, the margins so small that even the driver can't perceive the shift, but the results can be huge. Checo is a likely example, no chance of bettering his situation and without committing his focus on each day (and moment) at a time, he has imploded. The same could happen to either of our drivers if handled poorly. I have never met him but I get the impression that Will Joseph is too similar to Lando - not assertive to the point of abrasiveness. The GP character is a counterpoint to Will - in my humble opinion!!! We are viewing their world through a telescope. There's a shake up needed in that side of the garage, indecisiveness is so obvious. Randy or whoever was responsible for the defensiveness of the unnecessary Hungary GP undercut needs to be moved to another area of operation. Giving Oscar first service - as the universal protocol dictates - did not give Hamilton a sniff of getting to the dominant McLarens, AND it would have provided a better separation between our two cars which were in the zone of interrupted air at 2 seconds. This stuff really should be obvious in the debrief and I know Stella won't publicly throw anyone under the bus.

The harmony at McLaren is going to be harder to maintain from here on where both drivers are competing for the top step. We have seen since Miami that Lando has adjusted his expectations, the same is likely with Oscar who will carry himself, in his own insular and controlled way, as a winner. It's mental, they aren't even particularly conscious of it. But with both young winners, Stella now has his hands full containing the ambitions. All this has come a year before it was expected. Oscar has now almost conquered the difficult area of tyre preservation, exactly one year after he got found out in the 2023 Hungarian GP which he led before fading. Exciting times, possible fireworks, both drivers getting better service from the strategy team (please!), no number one driver - until such time as it became more of a reality.

[Seerix]

treated like that

I hope next time in the same situation the team will pit Piastri first and let Hamilton undercut Lando. It would be a much better treatment than securing his P2 by placing him at the front

Hardly, Lando came out 4,5s ahead of HAM. They easily had at least 2 more laps to order pits however they wanted.

[FittingMechanics]

We have to assume that they talked about defending from undercut by Verstappen/Hamilton before the race. It is obvious that the understanding was that the driver more under threat will get the pitstop priority as they wanted to protect the team. This is not new, McLaren did this before but they weren't in P1 so it wasn't that obvious.

Lando probably expected that he will be in Piastris situation, maybe under threat from a Piastri undercut and then Piastri needs to cede his position back. To me it sounds perfectly fine but as we've seen in Hungary, sometimes you make your life more complicated if you do it that way, especially as there was no immediate undercut threat by Hamilton.

I am sure they will learn from it, be more clear when they are doing it and avoid doing it if it is not necessary.

[Mr Dean]

It is too early to take a win or wins off Piastri to help Norris. By the end of this season, will Norris still be the best driver in the team? Norris still has a raw pace advantage, but error prone and inconsistent.

If not for McLaren pitwall errors, Piastri would have won the last three races. Even the race win in Budapest was in doubt until the closing moments because of how they made a mess of the strategy, being overly risk averse. Even if Hamilton did happen to undercut Norris, the McLaren is fundamentally faster and would have slightly fresher tyres.

[Dimond]

treated like that

I hope next time in the same situation the team will pit Piastri first and let Hamilton undercut Lando. It would be a much better treatment than securing his P2 by placing him at the front

Hardly, Lando came out 4,5s ahead of HAM. They easily had at least 2 more laps to order pits however they wanted.

2 more laps and 4.5 would have reduced to 2-3. A small mistake in the pits and he would have rejoined behind HAM on a track where it's very hard to overtake.

[billamend]

its probably his worst season.

Still way ahead of Piastri in points.

I know. Such a selfless guy. £20m plus all the hard work of a team behind him able to deliver a championship car without having to sit next to Max Verstappen, all coming at around about the time that he is just getting good enough to challenge Max, having been supported by the team to make him mentally stronger and make him as capable as he is today. All done in a way that is a total contrast with how other teams can treat F1 drivers. He really has had to put up with a lot, poor guy.

No sarcasm, just warm truthful humour, my friend

He did carry McLaren on his back during the Ricciardo years. They hired and treated Daniel as a superstar, and then Lando had to bring the points himself with a shitty car.

And it's not like he couldn't go to another very very well paid seat. It's not a secret that most teams wanted him. He could be in the RB seat since very early in his career.

I think he should count himself lucky to be at a team like this, quite honestly, as would any driver. This is where we are today. If he doesn't like it then I don't doubt we could attract any top talent on the grid when they are available. That is the truth of todays Mclaren.

Yeah, like drivers don't want to drive for Mercedes, Ferrari, or RB when they have a record of being ruthless with driver calls to win championships — like McLaren should have done today.

[Seerix]

I hope next time in the same situation the team will pit Piastri first and let Hamilton undercut Lando. It would be a much better treatment than securing his P2 by placing him at the front

Hardly, Lando came out 4,5s ahead of HAM. They easily had at least 2 more laps to order pits however they wanted.

2 more laps and 4.5 would have reduced to 2-3. A small mistake in the pits and he would have rejoined behind HAM on a track where it's very hard to overtake.

No need to add more made up eventualities (slow pitstop) to already made up scenario.
I can make up more scenarios too... 2 more laps and maybe HAM would push more and would make a mistake costing him time.

I'd think teams plan their stops around statistically very likely scenario, which is pitstop below 3s.
I see what you mean though, but I do not think considering issues in boxes is correct.

[mwillems]

its probably his worst season.

Still way ahead of Piastri in points.

I know. Such a selfless guy. £20m plus all the hard work of a team behind him able to deliver a championship car without having to sit next to Max Verstappen, all coming at around about the time that he is just getting good enough to challenge Max, having been supported by the team to make him mentally stronger and make him as capable as he is today. All done in a way that is a total contrast with how other teams can treat F1 drivers. He really has had to put up with a lot, poor guy.

No sarcasm, just warm truthful humour, my friend

He did carry McLaren on his back during the Ricciardo years. They hired and treated Daniel as a superstar, and then Lando had to bring the points himself with a shitty car.

And it's not like he couldn't go to another very very well paid seat. It's not a secret that most teams wanted him. He could be in the RB seat since very early in his career.

I think he should count himself lucky to be at a team like this, quite honestly, as would any driver. This is where we are today. If he doesn't like it then I don't doubt we could attract any top talent on the grid when they are available. That is the truth of todays Mclaren.

Yeah, like drivers don't want to drive for Mercedes, Ferrari, or RB when they have a record of being ruthless with driver calls to win championships — like McLaren should have done today.

Drivers will flock to Mclaren, no one would doubt that they will sort that out the strategy.

Lando could go to another seat, others could come here. We are not beholden to him. As for the Ricciardo years. yes, he did well, that's why he got a massive contract, so he wasn't doing anyone any favours. His career was enhanced and he was hugely enriched. That's how deals work, everyone wins. So no, we don't owe Lando any more than we already gave him. And now, there is a car that can challenge to be the best, and that is rarer than a driver that can challenge, in my opinion.

As for Lando being Well ahead of Oscar on points, this isn't really the case. Oscar is not far from Lando and having a good season. Less consistent than last season but with higher peaks and signs that he's getting on top of managing his Sundays now, as there have been some weekends when he has just nailed it and been a championship level driver.

Edit: To make clear, I don't want to change our line up, at all. I love it. But the team doesn't owe anything more than it already has given. The age of the superstar is going, in all areas of life, the team/product is king now.