2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[f1isgood]

Perez performance was bad, and worse, in the second stint it slowed down Max. I did not bother to check if he achieved the fastest lap at the end?

Max was stuck in a DRS train for the first two stints. There is nothing he could have done better today, maybe pass Leclerc at the end but overtaking was very hard today. Spa became had to overtake this year, seeing how Hamilton couldn't even pass Russell.

Max could have got into the podium or maybe even first, but never with a 10 rank penalty on the grid. Bad call from Red Bull to take the penalty here.

The grid is too close that a penalty will always be a big issue going forward. It is the problem with a converged field -- terrible racing and not too much action. But that's okay as it produces multiple winners.

[PierreW]

Perez performance was bad, and worse, in the second stint it slowed down Max. I did not bother to check if he achieved the fastest lap at the end?

Max was stuck in a DRS train for the first two stints. There is nothing he could have done better today, maybe pass Leclerc at the end but overtaking was very hard today. Spa became had to overtake this year, seeing how Hamilton couldn't even pass Russell.

Max could have got into the podium or maybe even first, but never with a 10 rank penalty on the grid. Bad call from Red Bull to take the penalty here.

The grid is too close that a penalty will always be a big issue going forward. It is the problem with a converged field -- terrible racing and not too much action. But that's okay as it produces multiple winners.

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

[f1isgood]

Perez performance was bad, and worse, in the second stint it slowed down Max. I did not bother to check if he achieved the fastest lap at the end?

Max was stuck in a DRS train for the first two stints. There is nothing he could have done better today, maybe pass Leclerc at the end but overtaking was very hard today. Spa became had to overtake this year, seeing how Hamilton couldn't even pass Russell.

Max could have got into the podium or maybe even first, but never with a 10 rank penalty on the grid. Bad call from Red Bull to take the penalty here.

The grid is too close that a penalty will always be a big issue going forward. It is the problem with a converged field -- terrible racing and not too much action. But that's okay as it produces multiple winners.

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

[Gillian]

Extended the gap to Norris, lmao, but this team was staggeringly incompetent today.

What incompetence do you have in mind? The only alternative I see was going for a Russell type one-stop strat, but that was just one of those lucky calls that work out once in a few years.
Main problem was just pace being nothing special in the dry. Somehow they went from clearly best in the rain to 3rd fastest in the dry, behind mcl and merc.

They let Perez put up a DRS train from lap 13 to lap 22 which destroyed Max's race because he couldn't pass Russell since Russell was getting the DRS from Perez.

Those 10 laps took away Max's chance to win.

This was weird to me as well. It was clear as day Perez was holding up Verstappen.

End results is good though. Verstappen extends his lead again even with the penalty so a job well done that

[PierreW]

The grid is too close that a penalty will always be a big issue going forward. It is the problem with a converged field -- terrible racing and not too much action. But that's okay as it produces multiple winners.

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

Pick the weakest track. Winners earn much more points than middle tier. The gamble failed today, we must acknowlege it.

[f1isgood]

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

Pick the weakest track. Winners earn much more points than middle tier. The gamble failed today, we must acknowlege it.

I am sure extending the lead by 2 points is better than losing 25 points at Singapore.

[Gillian]

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

Pick the weakest track. Winners earn much more points than middle tier. The gamble failed today, we must acknowlege it.

But it did not fail, right? Taking a penalty and still extending your championship lead in like, 3rd fastest car... Sounds like a win to me.

[PierreW]

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

Pick the weakest track. Winners earn much more points than middle tier. The gamble failed today, we must acknowlege it.

I am sure extending the lead by 2 points is better than losing 25 points at Singapore.

Then don't choose Singapore.

There are plenty of tracks or Max can start 12-15 and finish 7th or 8th. There are not plenty of tracks where this RB is competitive for the victory.

It's a missed opportunity. It could have been +17 today, and you would have stopped to fear Norris and start focusing back on the races.

[Bill]

i dont understand why redbull never do one stop strategies their junior team do them all the time and get results.

[PapayaFan481]

The grid is too close that a penalty will always be a big issue going forward. It is the problem with a converged field -- terrible racing and not too much action. But that's okay as it produces multiple winners.

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

Let's not forget that going into the weekend every commentator was talking about how Spa was the best circuit to do it as overtaking was expected to be possible here. The change in DRS length on the Kemmel Straight had a bigger impact than expected.

[chrisc90]

I would have rather taken a penalty in a race where Max could not win instead of a winnable race. These are becoming rarer and rarer.

But where would that be? In Singapore/Zandvoort maybe it's barely any points in the end. In Monza, DRS trains will likely be worse. Same with Baku. At some level this was the best track to take the penalty.

Let's not forget that going into the weekend every commentator was talking about how Spa was the best circuit to do it as overtaking was expected to be possible here. The change in DRS length on the Kemmel Straight had a bigger impact than expected.

And the resurfacing.

[venkyhere]

I have a feeling that Max starting on H is the right thing to do - there are two ways in which he can start the race - do an Alonso/Russel and charge like a bull (and increase risk of damage) and gain atleast 2-3 places OR do a Sargeant and stay clear of everyone and not gain any position, might even lose a position. I reckon the latter way is better considering the outright pace delta of RB20 vs non-McLaren cars. In which case, it makes sense to start on H tyre and not think of tyre preservation when attacking the cars ahead to gain positions after lap1. The careful nature of lap1 execution will anyway guarantee that the H is 'gently introduced' as well. The big risk with H is if there is a safety car around first pit window laps (12-16), others will get a free stop. But I think it's a risk worth taking (to start on H) because that will then ensure that when the two Ms come on later, they will do when there is relatively more chances of running-in-clean-air and making that sector2 count.

I think if Max had done this (started on H) he would have had a tyre offset in second and third stints AND crucially, been able to run in clean air and make the sector2 advantage count. There was no difference between M and H in terms of pace, and as Russel showed there was enough life in the H. Max could have run stints of 20H-12M-12M and easily finished P3. As many of us (the non delirious ones) knew, a win from P11 with other cars so much matched in pace was impossible anyway.

(i) pace of top4 teams are in the same ballpark
(ii) dirty air is back to 2021 levels, teams have been clever enough to completely negate the regulations
(iii) they have done something to the DRS zone before T5, I felt it to be much shorter than in the years before, chasing cars were opening their flap so much distance after EauRouge. Is this the case, was something done to this DRS zone ? As pace of top teams come closer and closer, DRS-length becomes super-important.

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Edit : ah so it was indeed done.

The change in DRS length on the Kemmel Straight had a bigger impact than expected.

[AR3-GP]

GP told Max, "10 of your finest" as Norris got into the DRS on lap 33-34. Loved that. Max did not disappoint.

As for the rest of this team. This was not a good race. +2 points is not good enough. Perez was awful. The pitstops were 2.4 and 2.7 for Max. Slow. The race management and refusing to get Perez out of the way was unconscionable.

This team declined a lot. They don't deserve the constructor's championship. Only Max's would have deserved a championship if he wins it.

[organic]

Not only was Perez poor but he ruined Max's race essentially. I am surprised the team didn't consider the 1-stop. Maybe hurt his tyres too much in the dirty air to make that realistic, but so did Russell

[taperoo2k]

I thought it was just Horner, but it is also Marko and others saying car was the best etc.

Max is also not driving as well as he used to, especially the past few races. Getting general frustration get to you is the easiest way to tank this championship. He should simply accept reality that Red Bull are unlikely to have the best car for majority if not all the races and do what he does best -- remain consistent and keep getting them points every weekend. There's no one better at it than him and if he keeps it like 2021, he will very likely get this title.

Horner and co are in denial that the RB20 isn't anywhere near as good as the RB19. Nor that McLaren have found genuine speed.

Max is still Max. The only difference between this year and last year? He had the best car on the grid, this season he doesn't. So, he hasn't got the speed advantage to overtake easily. One thing he's never really learned to do is to be patient with overtakes. It's always a dive up the inside or an overly ambitious overtake. If he continues as is, he'll start racking up penalties from the stewards.

To address Horner's point: Teams are not stupid. They have all the data. And I am pretty sure Red Bull know where they are weak. And yes while it would help to publicly acknowledge the job Max is doing, I am not sure the dynamics within the team are the same as they used to be a couple of years ago where they acknowledged their shortcomings, ever since the saga.

Verstappen is Verstappen but he is unironically also the maximizer of the results on the grid. You cannot take one race where a divebomb didn't work and use to make a gross generalization. Let's analyze situations on their own merit and not add our own priors that we will never change based on evidence to make a point. The best he could have done is P3 in that race. Maybe he should have settled for P4 but that is not who he is and over a season that seems to be enough to beat everyone on the grid. I can generally criticize many things about Max recently but I don't think making comments like he has never really learnt to be patient with overtakes is by any means a good take.

Verstappen is impatient at times. It's one of the few chinks in his race craft and has cost him points in the past. In 2023 he had the best car on the grid, maybe one of the best ever cars in F1. That allowed him to cruise to multiple victories. This season? He capitalised on the RB20's early form, now he's got swamped by other cars who've picked up the pace. Convergence for these set of regulations has arrived sooner than most expected. It's a game of winning where he can and maximising his points when wins aren't possible alongside finishing ahead of Lando.

The question for Red Bull is will they figure out the RB20's problems quickly or will any fixes have to wait for the RB21? If there is an issue with the design of the suspension (for example)? Not something you can easily fix in season given the cost cap.