2024 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, July 26 - 28

[erudite450]

Yes. I do think it was a very straight forward race for Lewis. He started on the inside line of Perez and jumped him with similar starts,

If they'd had similar starts, Perez wouldn't have been jumped. Hamilton got Perez off the line - Perez even did the cross-track chop move to try to keep Hamilton back but Hamilton was already level with him before he'd got across the track.

pushed Perez wide like he usually does

Left him width on the outside enough that Perez had enough room to have half of his car on the track - if he'd "pushed him wide" Perez would have driven in the gravel which he didn't.

Don't waste your breathe. He clearly was watching a different race.

[michl420]

I get that by the present rules RUS get DSQ. But in my oppinion this is a rule that got adjusted over the years until it become nonsens. RUS was never under the min weight and was never lighter that the other cars. Actually he had a disadvantage carry 2 kg usless fuel around. The rule should be, "when the driver leaves the car, both must together weight 798 kg or more". What matters to me here is the usefulness of the rule for the future, in this case I don't really care.

[erudite450]

I get that by the present rules RUS get DSQ. But in my oppinion this is a rule that got adjusted over the years until it become nonsens. RUS was never under the min weight and was never lighter that the other cars. Actually he had a disadvantage carry 2 kg usless fuel around. The rule should be, "when the driver leaves the car, both must together weight 798 kg or more". What matters to me here is the usefulness of the rule for the future, in this case I don't really care.

This doesn't really make any difference. F1 is a sport of fine margins and the teams continually push the limits (as they should especially now that the competition is so close). If they make the change you're asking for, the teams will adjust their limits accordingly. Mercedes were just caught out by their miscalculation. It's just the nature of the beast.

[ElyesGs]

Technical infractions are almost a guaranteed DSQ.. I can remember Porsche Penske being DSQ'ed two years ago at Watkins Glen for their front Skid wear being "less than 1mm" outside the tolerance !

[Farnborough]

I get that by the present rules RUS get DSQ. But in my oppinion this is a rule that got adjusted over the years until it become nonsens. RUS was never under the min weight and was never lighter that the other cars. Actually he had a disadvantage carry 2 kg usless fuel around. The rule should be, "when the driver leaves the car, both must together weight 798 kg or more". What matters to me here is the usefulness of the rule for the future, in this case I don't really care.

This doesn't really make any difference. F1 is a sport of fine margins and the teams continually push the limits (as they should especially now that the competition is so close). If they make the change you're asking for, the teams will adjust their limits accordingly. Mercedes were just caught out by their miscalculation. It's just the nature of the beast.

Exactly.

They ALL know the rules in operation, and how to work within them.

If they want to play jeopardy with them in this way (all rules are the same, how close you can come to the limit is up to you) then the risk is clear and actioned in this case.

Theres no point making excuses for the rules in place, that's not for any sport. Its a hard baseline in minimum weight, be above it to avoid conjecture.

It's just not that hard to comply. All the other competitors did.

[Sieper]

Well, were they? I think it is really weird the teams are allowed to empty out the fuel tank. What is to say they actually do that every race. They only double checked Russell as he was EXACTLY on the minimum weight, which triggered suspicion. Others might also have left some fuel in the tank. Or accumulator. Or some place else even. With margins this close things like this are now very important. And thus to check by FIA, they must empty out the tank.

[Mosin123]

That was the race plan for LH, so they must have had an idea about wear. i dont buy the tyre wear theory personally.

The tire wear theorem absolutely makes sense.

1.6 kilograms is only 400 grams per tire.

400 grams isn't a lot. It's about the weight of a smartphone. Rubber does weigh a bit, and considering how much rubber F1 cars can shred, how huge and wide their tires are, and thats they drive high-downforce cars at massive speeds in corners, it's absolutely conceivable that cars can hose a few kilograms of rubber over the duration of an entire race. And even if Russell didn't shred that much by extending his last stint, he could potentially have made up that weight if they had allowed pebble pickup at Spa.

You really don't think that the pickup demonstrated in this picture (for the entire circumference of the tire) can make up 400 grams? Because I certainly think it can.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z9ys1-tKN0c/maxresdefault.jpg

5, yes 5 other cars managed a 1 stopper, none failed the min weight, they all stayed above it, only one didnt..... you can try blame the tyres, But 5 others managed it. Bet none of those 5 left fuel in it to try cheat the check either.

[F1NAC]

Wouldn't Merc simply do the test by themselves to see if tyres were really the problem and then issue the statement? Because it seems that tyres weren't culprit

[Dunlay]

That was the race plan for LH, so they must have had an idea about wear. i dont buy the tyre wear theory personally.

The tire wear theorem absolutely makes sense.

1.6 kilograms is only 400 grams per tire.

400 grams isn't a lot. It's about the weight of a smartphone. Rubber does weigh a bit, and considering how much rubber F1 cars can shred, how huge and wide their tires are, and thats they drive high-downforce cars at massive speeds in corners, it's absolutely conceivable that cars can hose a few kilograms of rubber over the duration of an entire race. And even if Russell didn't shred that much by extending his last stint, he could potentially have made up that weight if they had allowed pebble pickup at Spa.

You really don't think that the pickup demonstrated in this picture (for the entire circumference of the tire) can make up 400 grams? Because I certainly think it can.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z9ys1-tKN0c/maxresdefault.jpg

5, yes 5 other cars managed a 1 stopper, none failed the min weight, they all stayed above it, only one didnt..... you can try blame the tyres, But 5 others managed it. Bet none of those 5 left fuel in it to try cheat the check either.

None did 34 laps on one set. The only one close was Alonso with 31 laps on it. Different cars, different behavior, performance and tyre utlization. Apples to oranges.

[Quantum]

Wouldn't Merc simply do the test by themselves to see if tyres were really the problem and then issue the statement? Because it seems that tyres weren't culprit

Why would Tyres not be the culprit?

[PlatinumZealot]

George was only front runner pushing the hard tyres to the limits. You can see the carcass fibres starting to show. I cannot say with certainty that those 15 or 20 laps of rubber layer was where the 1. 5 to 2.8kg went, but it is sounding very possible.

George did this before didn't he? Push the car and noticing the "magical" ride heights and "magical" carcass temperatures and didn't think anything of it.

Reminded me of when McLaren ran the upside-down suspension in 2011 by accident.

[TFSA]

5, yes 5 other cars managed a 1 stopper, none failed the min weight, they all stayed above it, only one didnt..... you can try blame the tyres, But 5 others managed it. Bet none of those 5 left fuel in it to try cheat the check either.

That's not relevant to what we were discussing. We were discussing whether tire weight changes could possibly account for the missing weight. You said you didn't believe that it could - i argued otherwise.

This is not about blaming or excusing it. So no need to get defensive.

Also, while also of little relevance: That 5 others cars managed a 1-stopper means little as a comparison, if they planned for that at the start. It appears that Mercedes never planned for Russell to do a 1 stop (they might have planned it for Hamilton originally).

[Mosin123]

The tire wear theorem absolutely makes sense.

1.6 kilograms is only 400 grams per tire.

400 grams isn't a lot. It's about the weight of a smartphone. Rubber does weigh a bit, and considering how much rubber F1 cars can shred, how huge and wide their tires are, and thats they drive high-downforce cars at massive speeds in corners, it's absolutely conceivable that cars can hose a few kilograms of rubber over the duration of an entire race. And even if Russell didn't shred that much by extending his last stint, he could potentially have made up that weight if they had allowed pebble pickup at Spa.

You really don't think that the pickup demonstrated in this picture (for the entire circumference of the tire) can make up 400 grams? Because I certainly think it can.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z9ys1-tKN0c/maxresdefault.jpg

5, yes 5 other cars managed a 1 stopper, none failed the min weight, they all stayed above it, only one didnt..... you can try blame the tyres, But 5 others managed it. Bet none of those 5 left fuel in it to try cheat the check either.

None did 34 laps on one set. The only one close was Alonso with 31 laps on it. Different cars, different behavior, performance and tyre utlization. Apples to oranges.

they still did a one stopper and stayed with in the rules, and didnt try to cheat a test..... you can try paint a different picture all you want, A one stopped was planned for LH, so they knew about wear obviously.... So as i said, i dont buy the tyres was worn out argument.

[Mosin123]

5, yes 5 other cars managed a 1 stopper, none failed the min weight, they all stayed above it, only one didnt..... you can try blame the tyres, But 5 others managed it. Bet none of those 5 left fuel in it to try cheat the check either.

That's not relevant to what we were discussing. We were discussing whether tire weight changes could possibly account for the missing weight. You said you didn't believe that it could - i argued otherwise.

This is not about blaming or excusing it. So no need to get defensive.

Also, while also of little relevance: That 5 others cars managed a 1-stopper means little as a comparison, if they planned for that at the start. It appears that Mercedes never planned for Russell to do a 1 stop (they might have planned it for Hamilton originally).

It was LH pre planned race stratagy, So yes they knew about wear.........

[Dunlay]

5, yes 5 other cars managed a 1 stopper, none failed the min weight, they all stayed above it, only one didnt..... you can try blame the tyres, But 5 others managed it. Bet none of those 5 left fuel in it to try cheat the check either.

None did 34 laps on one set. The only one close was Alonso with 31 laps on it. Different cars, different behavior, performance and tyre utlization. Apples to oranges.

they still did a one stopper and stayed with in the rules, and didnt try to cheat a test..... you can try paint a different picture all you want, A one stopped was planned for LH, so they knew about wear obviously.... So as i said, i dont buy the tyres was worn out argument.

Do you have an official quote about Lewis was initallly planned for one stop?