2024 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, July 26 - 28

[dialtone]

400 grams isn't a lot. It's about the weight of a smartphone.

Maybe a smartphone from the early 2000/late 90s.
Usually range from 140g to 250g.

How heavy is the f1 tire alone new?

Edit: IMHO tire theory isn't right. It's like in the NBA blaming a loss on the last missed shot when you went 50% from the field. The tire couldn't have helped them but then Kimi in Monza 2018 would have been DQd as well. They made the car too light and played too close to the line.

[Mosin123]

Lewis never makes a good, inspired decision for himself on track and then has loads to complain when his team mate does. Then we got all his fans justifying why he is correct. This is not the first time and I 100% certain, it won't be last.

GR got dq'ed right? And you specifically 100 % lay the blame on the tyres right? so it was a bad call, that dropped him out the points, and the race... LH took the win, Seerms you are mistaken, Lets stick to facts instead of whataboutery.

No it wasn't a bad call. It was a perfect call and a perfect execution, regardless of the result. Shows a lot of astute brilliance of a driver from inside the cockpit to assess the race situation and make such a call. Like he did in Zandvoort in 2022.

a perfect call with perfect execution was LH at Silverstone, winning his home GP in constantly changing conditions and making the right calls at the right times, not once, but twice to take the victory

Gambling on a one stop, and getting dq'ed, is not a perfect call. He got DQ'ed for having a under weight car.

Merc ( Shovlin ) said tyres was a contributing factor, not the sole factor in his DQ, and they dont understand why the car was under weight

“We don’t yet understand why the car was underweight following the race but will investigate thoroughly to find the explanation. We expect that the loss of rubber from the one stop was a contributing factor, and we’ll work to understand how it happened.”

[ismail1991]

I get that by the present rules RUS get DSQ. But in my oppinion this is a rule that got adjusted over the years until it become nonsens. RUS was never under the min weight and was never lighter that the other cars. Actually he had a disadvantage carry 2 kg usless fuel around. The rule should be, "when the driver leaves the car, both must together weight 798 kg or more". What matters to me here is the usefulness of the rule for the future, in this case I don't really care.

But it means Mercedes used fuel as ballast in Russel's car and it is not allowed either. Therefore, it is dsq. Maybe, Russel had more on board than Lewis due to his car being lighter and he stayed in the rich mode further

[DiogoBrand]

I just did a simple calculation here, hopefully it’s correct.
Considering tyre diameter of 0.72m, front width 0.305 and rear width 0.405, that gives a total area of 3.21m2 for the contact patches only.
Considering a specific mass of 1500kg/m3 for rubber, that means an average of 0,327mm of added thickness would already make 1.6kg of difference in George’s car.
Of course we have to consider that to gather the marbles he would waste another lap’s worth of fuel, but IMO it would be quite easy to gather far more than 1.6kg, or 0.327mm worth of rubber.
That’s not an excuse, just an interesting (and possibly correct) thought I had.

[TFSA]

Maybe a smartphone from the early 2000/late 90s.
Usually range from 140g to 250g.

How heavy is the f1 tire alone new?

Yes, i misremembered between a smartphone and a smaller tablet. My bad.

But anyway, i came across this Reddit comment. The guy who made it says he has an inside source in Mercedes, and he later linked to another Reddit comment he made where he mentioned that Mercedes might have an underweight car, before anyone else knew (the post is unedited and was made about 8 minutes before the first FIA document was published on the issue - it was also made before even Chris Medland reported on the issue). So it does seem like he knows someone on the inside.


Anyway, he claims his source says Russells tires were 1.2 kg lighter than Lewis tires. So still seems like the tires alone wouldn't be able to make up for it without Russell doing some decent rubber pickup. So clearly Mercedes must have miscalculated somewhere else. But as to the tire wear argument, it definitely seems like the tires shred a lot of weight during a stint - possibly up towards the 2-3 kilogram range at the upper end.

His claim that they only weigh the higher placed car in each team seems dubious though. That would imply that the FIA Scrutineering document is intentionally lying when it states that all cars (except Zhou) were weighed. If that is truly the case, then what else would the scutineering document be lying about?

[PlatinumZealot]

I get that by the present rules RUS get DSQ. But in my oppinion this is a rule that got adjusted over the years until it become nonsens. RUS was never under the min weight and was never lighter that the other cars. Actually he had a disadvantage carry 2 kg usless fuel around. The rule should be, "when the driver leaves the car, both must together weight 798 kg or more". What matters to me here is the usefulness of the rule for the future, in this case I don't really care.

But it means Mercedes used fuel as ballast in Russel's car and it is not allowed either. Therefore, it is dsq. Maybe, Russel had more on board than Lewis due to his car being lighter and he stayed in the rich mode further

Yeah. Fuel a ballast is a double benefit. You have access to more power and you can run lighter too!! It keeps giving and giving over the race. It was 2.8liters and there was still more left in the tank!

I'm glad that illegal win was caught. But I'm also intrigued as to how he didn't realize that he was losing so much ride height and gaining so much downforce and acceleration? A racer of George's experience helped with the eye of his race engineer should have noticed that no??

So many questions unanswered.

[GrizzleBoy]

I get that by the present rules RUS get DSQ. But in my oppinion this is a rule that got adjusted over the years until it become nonsens. RUS was never under the min weight and was never lighter that the other cars. Actually he had a disadvantage carry 2 kg usless fuel around. The rule should be, "when the driver leaves the car, both must together weight 798 kg or more". What matters to me here is the usefulness of the rule for the future, in this case I don't really care.

But it means Mercedes used fuel as ballast in Russel's car and it is not allowed either. Therefore, it is dsq. Maybe, Russel had more on board than Lewis due to his car being lighter and he stayed in the rich mode further

Yeah. Fuel a ballast is a double benefit. You have access to more power and you can run lighter too!! It keeps giving and giving over the race. It was 2.8liters and there was still more left in the tank!

I'm glad that illegal win was caught. But I'm also intrigued as to how he didn't realize that he was losing so much ride height and gaining so much downforce and acceleration? A racer of George's experience helped with the eye of his race engineer should have noticed that no??

So many questions unanswered.

The fact that this miscalculation was not picked up by any Simulation computer Or the team of humans in the strategy room in Brackley. Or the pit wall. Or any sensor on the car that could've raised an alarm. Is something I'm struggling to get.

[TimW]

His claim that they only weigh the higher placed car in each team seems dubious though. That would imply that the FIA Scrutineering document is intentionally lying when it states that all cars (except Zhou) were weighed. If that is truly the case, then what else would the scutineering document be lying about?

The fact that Russell's car came in underweight might well have prompted them to weigh all cars.

[chrisc90]

His claim that they only weigh the higher placed car in each team seems dubious though. That would imply that the FIA Scrutineering document is intentionally lying when it states that all cars (except Zhou) were weighed. If that is truly the case, then what else would the scutineering document be lying about?

The fact that Russell's car came in underweight might well have prompted them to weigh all cars.

All cars are weighed post GP.

[Luscion]

His claim that they only weigh the higher placed car in each team seems dubious though. That would imply that the FIA Scrutineering document is intentionally lying when it states that all cars (except Zhou) were weighed. If that is truly the case, then what else would the scutineering document be lying about?

The fact that Russell's car came in underweight might well have prompted them to weigh all cars.

All cars that finish the race are weighed afterwards. here the fia document from Hungary (only 19 cars here because Gasly dnf'd, same as in Spa with Zhou not finishing)

[ismail1991]

tires theory doesnt make sense. It can be contributing factor but not all 1.5 kg can be because of tires. If tires were the only reason, Alonso who drove hards for 31 laps would have same kind of problems maybe he would be like 0.5 kg underweight.

[Just_a_fan]

tires theory doesnt make sense. It can be contributing factor but not all 1.5 kg can be because of tires. If tires were the only reason, Alonso who drove hards for 31 laps would have same kind of problems maybe he would be like 0.5 kg underweight.

They swapped the floors which might have led to a missed reballasting of the car. Assuming the new floor is lighter, of course.

[PlatinumZealot]

There was a theory I had... Even a thread I made on this....

Ablative parts....

Yes!

It seems it might be true then. But how does one gain back the mass though? Maybe the mechanic puts tungsten ingot in the front jack in the last pitstop where it is magnetically picked up into the front wing.... Or simply tossed into the side-pod..
Hmm.

[dialtone]

This, with the increased performance of Mercs, and the flexi wing would be enough to trigger british press name calling Ferrari if all this happened in Italy.

To be honest there's a lot to explain, if I were FIA I would kick off some serious investigation and, if they aren't doing so already, mandate dry car weighing, not empty it after they are close to minimum.

Something is very suspicious here.

[AR3-GP]

This, with the increased performance of Mercs, and the flexi wing would be enough to trigger british press name calling Ferrari if all this happened in Italy.

Don't worry dialtone, Ferrari will have protection starting next year