2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[ScuderiaLeo]

I agree with Vanja and the rest of the guys here on Newey topic.
I would have loved to see him in Ferrari but at the same time I don't think the team made the wrong choice if those requests he made were really like that.
I understand his side as well and I think he was in a position to make them so why not. For Ferrari I think that would be like swallowing a poisonous pill. Everything wrong with the car would still be Ferraris's fault. Everything good would be Newey's; there is no winning in that.
Aslo, Newey isn't here for the long term, makes no sense to give full auth. to someone to create a team as he pleases around him when you know he's leaving in 4 to 5 years. Those restructuring efforts take time and cost a lot and ideally you don't want to have to redo a whole team every few years. In the end I really believe Ferrari has some good people in the team, if you look at the people that have left in the let's say last 10 years most of them made a pretty successful career in other teams.

Even if we would win '27, '28 because of him, there would be a painful decline once Newey leaves the team.

+1

It's also pretty silly to think that Newey is the only thing stopping Ferrari from producing a WDC. People seem to have this image that Newey would come into the team, hire a bunch of fantastic engineers that Ferrari wouldn't otherwise get, and fix all their problems. Let's be real, that is not happening.

I remember at the beginning of last year, people were talking about how McLaren's attempt to better the team was a complete failure, waste of money, whatever - look at them now. Somewhat similarly, Vasseur is already changing the team so much. Let's at least wait until the current changes come to fruition before we write them all off. Serra hasn't even technically joined the team yet lol and some people are saying he's a bad pick up.

[Seanspeed]

Newey wouldn't just make demands like that cuz he's some autocratic megalomaniac, though. He knows better than anyone in F1 history what it takes to build the best, most dominant F1 cars.

And if the argument is that he'd leave after a few years and Ferrari would then be in a state of disarray, well.........is that really so different than what we normally deal with? Like, we had to deal with the exodos of Todt and Brawn and co and the organizational breakdown that caused, but that's all fine if we have some championship trophies to play with it in the meantime, isn't it? lol

Honestly, assuming the story is true(which is still dubious), I think much of this comes down to an important detail - Newey tends to demand that the engine department cater to the aero department. I think that's the main reason he'd want any kind of ultimate power. Which is more difficult at Ferrari given Ferrari's reputation for engines. Newey is notorious for pushing packaging to extremes, which requires the engine maker to push themselves to the limits. And this has caused very identifiable problems for Newey-designed cars before, being fast, but unreliable. BUT, with enough work, and with a decent engine manufacturer who can deliver what he wants, he puts together an unstoppable package.

I can see why Ferrari would balk at this, but I also think there's a benefit to somebody pushing the engine department like this as well.

[Xyz22]

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... 2_info_in/

[Vanja #66]

W13 3 tenths ahead of F1-75 in AD while both Ferraris finished ahead of Mercedes? That's some methodology

[FDD]

W13 3 tenths ahead of F1-75 in AD while both Ferraris finished ahead of Mercedes? That's some methodology

But on average they were slower to W13

[Vanja #66]

But on average they were slower to W13

McLaren being 0.5s slower in Silverstone 23, Ferrari the same in AD23, McLaren not the fastest in Miami 24, Ferrari in Monaco 24... The list goes on and on

[AR3-GP]

But on average they were slower to W13

McLaren being 0.5s slower in Silverstone 23, Ferrari the same in AD23, McLaren not the fastest in Miami 24, Ferrari in Monaco 24... The list goes on and on

To showcase the bigger picture, the graph shows the rolling average of 5 races

It is a moving average calculation (5 race average). This means that the average is inclusive of the preceding 4 GPs. It is meant to show long term trends in performance. How the race pace is selected is arbitrary (and possibly incorrect) but the overall trend seems correct. Big upswing for Mclaren since 2023. Big upswing for Mercedes since the start of 2024

[Xyz22]

But on average they were slower to W13

McLaren being 0.5s slower in Silverstone 23, Ferrari the same in AD23, McLaren not the fastest in Miami 24, Ferrari in Monaco 24... The list goes on and on

To showcase the bigger picture, the graph shows the rolling average of 5 races

It is a moving average calculation (5 race average). This means that the average is inclusive of the preceding 4 GPs. It is meant to show long term trends in performance. How the race pace is selected is arbitrary (and possibly incorrect) but the overall trend seems correct. Big upswing for Mclaren since 2023. Big upswing for Mercedes since the start of 2024

Exactly. The approach is good to show the overall season trend and not specific races.
You can really see the insane gains made by McLaren and the "death" of the F1 75.

[f1316]

McLaren being 0.5s slower in Silverstone 23, Ferrari the same in AD23, McLaren not the fastest in Miami 24, Ferrari in Monaco 24... The list goes on and on

To showcase the bigger picture, the graph shows the rolling average of 5 races

It is a moving average calculation (5 race average). This means that the average is inclusive of the preceding 4 GPs. It is meant to show long term trends in performance. How the race pace is selected is arbitrary (and possibly incorrect) but the overall trend seems correct. Big upswing for Mclaren since 2023. Big upswing for Mercedes since the start of 2024

Exactly. The approach is good to show the overall season trend and not specific races.
You can really see the insane gains made by McLaren and the "death" of the F1 75.

Yes and the other thing it shows - which I believe is accurate - is that Ferrari have not exactly dropped off the pace in 2024; we’ve failed to make inroads - and, as we know, that’s the result of a specific update causing unexpected issues - but even then that’s been essentially the same as Red Bull.

[Xyz22]

It is a moving average calculation (5 race average). This means that the average is inclusive of the preceding 4 GPs. It is meant to show long term trends in performance. How the race pace is selected is arbitrary (and possibly incorrect) but the overall trend seems correct. Big upswing for Mclaren since 2023. Big upswing for Mercedes since the start of 2024

Exactly. The approach is good to show the overall season trend and not specific races.
You can really see the insane gains made by McLaren and the "death" of the F1 75.

Yes and the other thing it shows - which I believe is accurate - is that Ferrari have not exactly dropped off the pace in 2024; we’ve failed to make inroads - and, as we know, that’s the result of a specific update causing unexpected issues - but even then that’s been essentially the same as Red Bull.

The issue is that RB isn't the benchmark anymore.

[Vanja #66]

It is a moving average calculation (5 race average). This means that the average is inclusive of the preceding 4 GPs. It is meant to show long term trends in performance. How the race pace is selected is arbitrary (and possibly incorrect) but the overall trend seems correct. Big upswing for Mclaren since 2023. Big upswing for Mercedes since the start of 2024

What does it matter what the methodology is if it's fundamentaly flawed? Two trend examples you mention can be spotted by a blind man watching from the Moon. There are far more trends that aren't correct, as a consequence of flawed methodology

[deadhead]

I would have loved to see him in Ferrari but at the same time I don't think the team made the wrong choice if those requests he made were really like that.

If his demands are true, he offered them his full attention and commitment to fix the team that hasn't won anything since 2008...

[scuderiabrandon]

I would have loved to see him in Ferrari but at the same time I don't think the team made the wrong choice if those requests he made were really like that.

If his demands are true, he offered them his full attention and commitment to fix the team that hasn't won anything since 2008...

It's not about "fixing" the team and you know it. As far as we know, his demands are the same at other teams. Does Adrian care that much about other teams that he feels the need to "fix" them? I don't think so. His demands are allegedly so outrageous that none of the top teams felt necessary to meet his demands? You'd be silly to believe none of them tried to hire Newey. You can hire just about 20 James Allison level engineers for his rumoured salary as an example.

[Chuckjr]

I would have loved to see him in Ferrari but at the same time I don't think the team made the wrong choice if those requests he made were really like that.

If his demands are true, he offered them his full attention and commitment to fix the team that hasn't won anything since 2008...

100% truth. 100%.

Ferrari leadership is showing themselves to be ego maniacs choosing to keep going a dead path that has lead them to nothing over taking on the greatest F1 aero designer in history. SMH. Newey has been spanking them for years and they say no? Lol. Dam fools. If they indeed turned him down, they deserve whatever demise befalls them. They had a chance, but declined. Lewis and Shaal are doomed with such inept leadership. Honestly, I’m dumbfounded at their shortsightedness and unwillingness to relinquish control. Unbelievable.

[AtOmIc]

I would have loved to see him in Ferrari but at the same time I don't think the team made the wrong choice if those requests he made were really like that.

If his demands are true, he offered them his full attention and commitment to fix the team that hasn't won anything since 2008...

yes but if he "fixes" them for 2 years only to win 1 year and then leaves and they regress into even bigger hole then they're in now then it's not something that's worth it really. It would be more productive to try and sort it out without him. Look at Red Bull now. As soon as Newey stepped back even for a little the team is nowhere and aero guys seemingly have no clue how to fix the car. I don't want Newey geinus reorganization in ferrari if that organization is depending only on him and is made to maximise his time results. The guy is old now let's say he gets sick, what will we do then if everything is on him. It's not good

I've been in positions where I had teams basically heavily depending on one brilliant individual to deliver the value and it always was awesome at first and ended badly.