2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[AtOmIc]

I would have loved to see him in Ferrari but at the same time I don't think the team made the wrong choice if those requests he made were really like that.

If his demands are true, he offered them his full attention and commitment to fix the team that hasn't won anything since 2008...

yes but if he "fixes" them for 2 years only to win 1 year and then leaves and they regress into even bigger hole then they're in now then it's not something that's worth it really. It would be more productive to try and sort it out without him. Look at Red Bull now. As soon as Newey stepped back even for a little the team is nowhere and aero guys seemingly have no clue how to fix the car. I don't want Newey geinus reorganization in ferrari if that organization is depending only on him and is made to maximise his time results. The guy is old now let's say he gets sick, what will we do then if everything is on him. It's not good

I've been in positions where I had teams basically heavily depending on one brilliant individual to deliver the value and it always was awesome at first and ended badly.

[Waz]

So, several more years of "mediocre" results and the odd win are better than a championship and then going back to mediocre results and the odd win?

The last TP at Ferrari who lasted more than 3 years was Domenicali who left a decade ago. Long term stability doesn't exist at Ferrari, so turning Newey down is highly likely ego based.

[FDD]

But on average they were slower to W13

McLaren being 0.5s slower in Silverstone 23, Ferrari the same in AD23, McLaren not the fastest in Miami 24, Ferrari in Monaco 24... The list goes on and on

Clear, was joking

[FDD]

But on average they were slower to W13

McLaren being 0.5s slower in Silverstone 23, Ferrari the same in AD23, McLaren not the fastest in Miami 24, Ferrari in Monaco 24... The list goes on and on

To showcase the bigger picture, the graph shows the rolling average of 5 races

It is a moving average calculation (5 race average). This means that the average is inclusive of the preceding 4 GPs. It is meant to show long term trends in performance. How the race pace is selected is arbitrary (and possibly incorrect) but the overall trend seems correct. Big upswing for Mclaren since 2023. Big upswing for Mercedes since the start of 2024

Moving Average!!!
When someone use math-statistical methods must know what that method is presenting.
In this case MA is absolutely stupid and it shows nothing, or better to say it is misleading.
If the one who make this wanted to use some stat tools then the much better choice would be Indexes, with fix or moving Base or both.
BTW Statistics/math does not proof anything, ie not very useful in our case, only for intellectual masturbation.

[Vanja #66]

So we have Vasseur who founded and won F2/F3 and other titles with one of the best junior teams (ART Grand Prix) in the last 2-3 decades, stepping up to F1 with Renault and leaving as soon as he realised it's not going to be a success story.

Moves to Sauber/Alfa Romeo, brings up from the bottom of the grid to a strong midfield status in 2022 (once Ferrari PU was up to the job after a few years) - leaves them for Ferrari, team turns into an immediate backmarker.

Persuades Elkann and Ferrari board they need fresh knowledge from non-italian engineers (which never happened since Brawn left the team), successfully brings several very prominent people to the team, including the most successful ever driver. Allows Cardille to take over as TD with very little experience in previous role, effectivelly promotes him to AMR CTO by trusting him to reinvent SF23 and continue that way with early SF24 and show how quickly he can cut a big chunk of the gap down.

And now this TP with massive experience in all aspects of F1, who committed to building an international Ferrari F1 team back to glory and has full support of Elkann as Ferrari Chairman - would throw away a chance to sign up Newey just because he doesn't want to lose some of his decision making powers? Seriously?

And, of course, neither McLaren, Mercedes nor Williams turned him down because he asked too much, they all had their own totally logical reasons

Clear, was joking

Yup, I just wanted to make a few more points

[scuderiabrandon]

So we have Vasseur who founded and won F2/F3 and other titles with one of the best junior teams (ART Grand Prix) in the last 2-3 decades, stepping up to F1 with Renault and leaving as soon as he realised it's not going to be a success story.

Moves to Sauber/Alfa Romeo, brings up from the bottom of the grid to a strong midfield status in 2022 (once Ferrari PU was up to the job after a few years) - leaves them for Ferrari, team turns into an immediate backmarker.

Persuades Elkann and Ferrari board they need fresh knowledge from non-italian engineers (which never happened since Brawn left the team), successfully brings several very prominent people to the team, including the most successful ever driver. Allows Cardille to take over as TD with very little experience in previous role, effectivelly promotes him to AMR CTO by trusting him to reinvent SF23 and continue that way with early SF24 and show how quickly he can cut a big chunk of the gap down.

And now this TP with massive experience in all aspects of F1, who committed to building an international Ferrari F1 team back to glory and has full support of Elkann as Ferrari Chairman - would throw away a chance to sign up Newey just because he doesn't want to lose some of his decision making powers? Seriously?

And, of course, neither McLaren, Mercedes nor Williams turned him down because he asked too much, they all had their own totally logical reasons

Clear, was joking

Yup, I just wanted to make a few more points

Let's not forget his alleged salary of 100m Euro for a 3-year period. Surely that amount of money is better spent on a dozen other engineers no?

[Fakepivot]

Good interview from Charles https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-le ... /10643789/

he goes over something that we suspected like the communication being the main error in Silverstone as Bryan is new and they are working things out but also goes over some technical aspect about Spain upgrade, so they had correlation with sim and real world same until Spain which throw them off course

[Vanja #66]

Let's not forget his alleged salary of 100m Euro for a 3-year period. Surely that amount of money is better spent on a dozen other engineers no?

His earnings are excluded from cost cap in RB and will be so in AMR, so it doesn't really affect things within cost cap (like multiple other salaries). But having those funds around and invested elsewhere won't hurt for sure

[catent]

The thing is, Newey can be given guarantees that his voice will be present, listened to, and valued when critical decisions are made regarding technical personnel/structure, technical sponsorships, etc. There is a massive gap between that sort of collaboration, and giving contractual authority to Newey to effectively do whatever he pleases. That’s a political landmine, leaving a situation where the team is singularly dependent on one individual (Newey). That’s an unwise and unsustainable setup, even if Newey approaches the situation in good faith.

Newey seems to want his cake and eat it, too. He wants all of the relevant decision making authority for the technical department up to the point that he no longer wants it. If he wants that level of control, autonomy, and authority, he should be pursuing a role as Team Principle (TP), not as a Technical Director (TD).

Newey should also be open to working in a new environment and with new people/ideas. If he’s unable/unwilling to collaborate and work effectively with new/unfamiliar voices, or within a new structure, then again, he should not be pursuing as role as TD, but as TP so he can craft a team entirely as he wishes.

Again, the issue here is that such contractural guarantees neuter Vasseur, makes the team singularly dependent on one individual (who happens to be aging and nearing the end of his career), and gives Newey ultimate authority while he is able to remain distanced from accountability. I will repeat myself, yet again: if Newey wants that level of authority and control, he should find a role as TP and accept the full scope of work and decision making accountability that comes with making such decisions.

[deadhead]

You are right Vanja, perhaps it’s too early to pass judgement on Vasseur & co. but if 2025, and more importantly 2026, are both years where the car is slower than RB, Merc, McLaren, and AM thanks to them getting a very motivated Newey, who are we to blame considering the recent loss of personnel at Ferrari? Not to mention they will have the most potent driver pair on the grid driving for them..

[bluechris]

The thing is, Newey can be given guarantees that his voice will be present, listened to, and valued when critical decisions are made regarding technical personnel/structure, technical sponsorships, etc. There is a massive gap between that sort of collaboration, and giving contractual authority to Newey to effectively do whatever he pleases. That’s a political landmine, leaving a situation where the team is singularly dependent on one individual (Newey). That’s an unwise and unsustainable setup, even if Newey approaches the situation in good faith.

Newey seems to want his cake and eat it, too. He wants all of the relevant decision making authority for the technical department up to the point that he no longer wants it. If he wants that level of control, autonomy, and authority, he should be pursuing a role as Team Principle (TP), not as a Technical Director (TD).

Newey should also be open to working in a new environment and with new people/ideas. If he’s unable/unwilling to collaborate and work effectively with new/unfamiliar voices, or within a new structure, then again, he should not be pursuing as role as TD, but as TP so he can craft a team entirely as he wishes.

Again, the issue here is that such contractural guarantees neuter Vasseur, makes the team singularly dependent on one individual (who happens to be aging and nearing the end of his career), and gives Newey ultimate authority while he is able to remain distanced from accountability. I will repeat myself, yet again: if Newey wants that level of authority and control, he should find a role as TP and accept the full scope of work and decision making accountability that comes with making such decisions.

So I'm your opinion in Ferrari in Brawn era, there where many people that was responsible for decisions and it was democracy right?
Imo it will be the biggest loss if Newey goes to any other team no matter how the current technical department and everything will perform in the future.
You grab the Saint and you have guarantee the biggest chances of winning.

[Chuckjr]

Let's not forget his alleged salary of 100m Euro for a 3-year period. Surely that amount of money is better spent on a dozen other engineers no?

How many Tom Brady’s are there?
How many Steve Jobs?
How many James Hetfield’s?
How many Michael Schumacher's?
How many Adrian Newey’s?

Players can be hired but artistic genius cannot be replaced with numbers.
Ferrari will regret it if they let him walk.

[scuderiabrandon]

Let's not forget his alleged salary of 100m Euro for a 3-year period. Surely that amount of money is better spent on a dozen other engineers no?

How many Tom Brady’s are there?
How many Steve Jobs?
How many James Hetfield’s?
How many Michael Schumacher's?
How many Adrian Newey’s?

Players can be hired but artistic genius cannot be replaced with numbers.
Ferrari will regret it if they let him walk.

This is the sensationalist BS I talk about.

[Vanja #66]

There's only two options. Either Newey gave Ferrari a list of impossible demands to make them decline his demands this time (so it's not again him who says no) or he gave the other 4 teams the same list and of those 5 only one team accepted - unsurprisingly, the most desparate one at the moment. In either case, Ferrari did what they could, no one wants to have a person bearing no responsibility making and vetoing decisions that a TP is responsible for

[yooogurt]

The wind tunnel update at Maranello is almost ready, it will be able to provide more data on the lateral flow and front end, such as the effects of deformation of the front tire profiles. It's no coincidence that they say the most delicate thing to change on these cars is the front wing design.
+
In fact, Vasser's team will be composed more similarly to what we see at McLaren , with three technicians responsible for chassis-aerodynamics-car. Currently, with the addition of Serra to the famous "7 Bello", this trio will consist of Serra-Tondi-Montecchi , Ferrari's organizational structure has changed a lot in the last period, with a high turnover of staff. and a lot of external technicians joining Maranello.
https://formu1a.uno/it/ferrari-serra-sa ... -galleria/