F1 Energy store density for 2026 and hot swap batteries

[mzso]

Battery swap would be a possible solution for an all-electric series. But F1 won't be that for many years.

But what if it was? Assuming similar performance they'd need to swap batteries rather often. I'm guessing every 15-20 minutes. And pits stops take a lot of time. I wonder how popular that would be.

[PlatinumZealot]

More information strengthing this proposal.

Some electric taxis in china swap batteries "on the fly." the cars simply drive into a battery swapping station where the car is raised and the discharged battery is swapped with a new one in seconds. Passengers are not allowed in the vehicle while this happens.

f1 certainly can look at this technique for the future.

Why would you need that for a series that is hybrid and has a small battery?

The per lap energy usage is twice the nominal storage in the battery.

Battery swap would be a possible solution for an all-electric series. But F1 won't be that for many years.

Please see my previous posts on the sporting values, regulations required and battery calculations.

Basically, you want to now use excess battery capacity as a strategic tool. The energy gained and over a certain number of laps from braking regen would not allow a full deploy for an extended number of laps. The driver if he choses to full deploy for extended laps could switch his battery at his pitstops to allow this.

I already worked out this energy flow in previous posts tho. It is viable. It's the engineering that remians. The video from China above shows an interesting way of doing it.

[PlatinumZealot]

Battery swap would be a possible solution for an all-electric series. But F1 won't be that for many years.

But what if it was? Assuming similar performance they'd need to swap batteries rather often. I'm guessing every 15-20 minutes. And pits stops take a lot of time. I wonder how popular that would be.

Y'all aint reading the posts

This number of laps for cross-over point was calculated for a certain cenario. You would have full deploy for like six to ten laps.. Or whatever it the regs would support. So imagine a driver going half a second to one second a lap faster because he is at full deploy for ten laps.

[wuzak]

Battery swap would be a possible solution for an all-electric series. But F1 won't be that for many years.

But what if it was? Assuming similar performance they'd need to swap batteries rather often. I'm guessing every 15-20 minutes. And pits stops take a lot of time. I wonder how popular that would be.

Y'all aint reading the posts

This number of laps for cross-over point was calculated for a certain cenario. You would have full deploy for like six to ten laps.. Or whatever it the regs would support. So imagine a driver going half a second to one second a lap faster because he is at full deploy for ten laps.

Current battery deployment rules allow for 33s at full power.

2026 rules allow for unlimited deployment, however recovery rules only allow 8.5MJ recovery, which means only 24s of deployment. And only 11.4s of continuous deployment to deplete the nominal battery capacity.

1/3-1/4 of most track lap times.

You would need multiple battery swaps per lap!

If the actual full capacity of the battery was used, you'd be looking at 1 swap per lap.

For 2026, the energy budget per lap will be ~58.5MJ for a 60 lap race.

That's 12.5 times the nominal battery capacity of 4MJ.

Maybe 4 times the actual battery capacity.

How big do you propose a "hot swap" battery would be?

8.5MJ * 6 = 51MJ. Probably about 5 times the size and, therefore, weight of the current battery.

Or ~ 150kg battery.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yea already went thru these arguments.

Doesn't change this proposal.

Whatever excess energy a battery will offer over the net gain in charge from regeneration (which in most tracks would very well be negative) will have a performance benefit for some number of laps.

The idea is viable from a sporting perspective.... I have moved on from that.

Interested in the engineering aspects of it.

[Big Tea]

But what if it was? Assuming similar performance they'd need to swap batteries rather often. I'm guessing every 15-20 minutes. And pits stops take a lot of time. I wonder how popular that would be.

Y'all aint reading the posts

This number of laps for cross-over point was calculated for a certain cenario. You would have full deploy for like six to ten laps.. Or whatever it the regs would support. So imagine a driver going half a second to one second a lap faster because he is at full deploy for ten laps.

Current battery deployment rules allow for 33s at full power.

2026 rules allow for unlimited deployment, however recovery rules only allow 8.5MJ recovery, which means only 24s of deployment. And only 11.4s of continuous deployment to deplete the nominal battery capacity.

1/3-1/4 of most track lap times.

You would need multiple battery swaps per lap!

If the actual full capacity of the battery was used, you'd be looking at 1 swap per lap.

For 2026, the energy budget per lap will be ~58.5MJ for a 60 lap race.

That's 12.5 times the nominal battery capacity of 4MJ.

Maybe 4 times the actual battery capacity.

How big do you propose a "hot swap" battery would be?

8.5MJ * 6 = 51MJ. Probably about 5 times the size and, therefore, weight of the current battery.

Or ~ 150kg battery.

Thats 24 seconds at full beanz of course. Would it not be more likely to be concentrated at key points where available power becomes slightly more than traction? So throughout a lap can be a substantial boost

[diffuser]

Battery capacity is 4Mj or 1.11111kwh.

Motor power is 350kwh....

1.11111kwh.   3600seconds
----------- x ----------- = 11.4 seconds
350kwh.       1 hr  

Of course you can recharge up to 9mj per lap, twice the capacity of the battery.

[wuzak]

Battery capacity is 4Mj or 1.11111kwh.

Motor power is 350kwh....

1.11111kwh. 3600seconds
-------------------- x ---------------------- = 11.4 seconds
350kwh. 1 hr

Of course you can recharge up to 9mj per lap, twice the capacity of the battery.

It's been changed to 8.5MJ per lap.

[diffuser]

Battery capacity is 4Mj or 1.11111kwh.

Motor power is 350kwh....

1.11111kwh.   3600 seconds
----------- x -----------  = 11.4 seconds
350kwh.          1 hr  

Of course you can recharge up to 9mj per lap, twice the capacity of the battery.

It's been changed to 8.5MJ per lap.

Even if it is, the difference is negligible.

[diffuser]

Successful teams with the 2026 PU regs will revolve around who makes best use on the MGU-K. We're gonna see all kinds of scenarios where the ICE will be keeping the MGU-K spinning at it's lowest RPM that generates max charge when it's power isn't needed. When the driver is off throttle, it will spin up the MGU-K. Even when the driver is on throttle, if the power requested is below the max that the ICE can provide, the MGU-K will be in charge mode. They’ll try to avoid braking with the front wheels whenever possible as that is just a loss of energy.

[Zynerji]

The more I read about F1 2026, the more I realize my fandom will only exist from 2004-2025.

[mzso]

Successful teams with the 2026 PU regs will revolve around who makes best use on the MGU-K. We're gonna see all kinds of scenarios where the the ICE will be keeping the MGU-K spinning at it's lowest RPM that generates max charge when it's power isn't needed. When the diver is off throttle, it will spin up the MGU-K. Even when the driver is on throttle, if the power requested is below the max that the ICE can provide, the MGU-K will be in charge mode. They’ll try to avoid braking with the front wheels whenever possible as that is just a loss of energy.

I wonder how drivers will feel about it.

[diffuser]

Successful teams with the 2026 PU regs will revolve around who makes best use on the MGU-K. We're gonna see all kinds of scenarios where the ICE will be keeping the MGU-K spinning at it's lowest RPM that generates max charge when it's power isn't needed. When the driver is off throttle, it will spin up the MGU-K. Even when the driver is on throttle, if the power requested is below the max that the ICE can provide, the MGU-K will be in charge mode. They’ll try to avoid braking with the front wheels whenever possible as that is just a loss of energy.

I wonder how drivers will feel about it.

I presume, at the beginning, they'll complain about drive ability. Eventually it will be transparent, for the most part as the software get's better. With regards to the braking, they do alot of LIFT and coast now but I don't think they're gonna want to waste that energy in the future. So maybe when they Lift the MGU-K will kicking automatically??? No idea.

[mzso]

Successful teams with the 2026 PU regs will revolve around who makes best use on the MGU-K. We're gonna see all kinds of scenarios where the ICE will be keeping the MGU-K spinning at it's lowest RPM that generates max charge when it's power isn't needed. When the driver is off throttle, it will spin up the MGU-K. Even when the driver is on throttle, if the power requested is below the max that the ICE can provide, the MGU-K will be in charge mode. They’ll try to avoid braking with the front wheels whenever possible as that is just a loss of energy.

I wonder how drivers will feel about it.

I presume, at the beginning, they'll complain about drive ability. Eventually it will be transparent, for the most part as the software get's better. With regards to the braking, they do alot of LIFT and coast now but I don't think they're gonna want to waste that energy in the future. So maybe when they Lift the MGU-K will kicking automatically??? No idea.

Not sure the driveabilty will be different, if the system is tuned properly. However the noise and vibrations not matching the powe demand could be very confusing and misleading.
It's unclear to me whether the ICE is allowed to run at high power to generate when the power pedal is not pressed. I've heard it both ways and the rules keep changing as well.

[wuzak]

It's unclear to me whether the ICE is allowed to run at high power to generate when the power pedal is not pressed. I've heard it both ways and the rules keep changing as well.

The rules have a clause that limits the fuel flow under part throttle.

Notably they define the fuel flow in terms of the engine power, not power demand.

The rule specifies a flat fuel flow rate for power below -50kW and a proportional flow rate above -50kW.

With no throttle at all, the cars will either be braking or lift and coasting.