2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Yuki being much younger has a much higher ceiling than Ricciardo. The stigma of being Japanese/Asian and also Honda backing is being held against him. It's clear this is Horner's decision and while people think that Ric is getting closer, it is more that Yuki doesn't give a --- anymore it seems.

Albon raced for Red Bull. What does being Asian have to do with it?

It's hard to pinpoint. But equating Alex and Yuki as the same "asian" is again an example of the "othering" aspect. Yuki has a cultural and language "barrier" to overcome compared to Alex. They've come through in vastly different ways, and they at least gave Alex a chance in the seat and deemed him too early. In any case, people will call out "attitude" but I remember Max, Seb, and don't see much difference in Yuki. People think of it as "disrespect toward your engineer etc" but it's not, drivers shouldn't have to be like that when they need a killer instinct, particularly when struggling to be competitive relative to your current position.

Red Bull had negative experiences with young drivers who are keen to prove themselves against Max (Gasly and Albon). Tsunoda is in same position. Sainz was in the same position (twice). Red Bull have to choose a driver who they believe can cope with driving alongside Max Verstappen and that is why Perez and Ricciardo were sought after. They are GP winners who are mature and understanding of their own limitations. Tsunoda is not there yet. It has nothing to do with culture or language.

In any case, people will call out "attitude" but I remember Max, Seb, and don't see much difference in Yuki. People think of it as "disrespect toward your engineer etc" but it's not, drivers shouldn't have to be like that when they need a killer instinct, particularly when struggling to be competitive relative to your current position.

The similarity is big part of why Tsunoda is not considered. As I said earlier, RB are not choosing drivers in isolation. What do you think is going to happen when a temperamental Tsunoda can't beat Max? Red Bull can see it coming from a mile away and don't want to put Tsunoda or themselves through it.

[Bill]

Yuki is not allowed to even be the lead driver at v carb.they bought devries for that and when it didnt work they brought daniel .marko ones alluded to the fact that yuki is Honda driver and when they leave redbull yuki will go wherever honda goes,so he will always be looked at as the outsider.

[Zynerji]

Yuki is not allowed to even be the lead driver at v carb.they bought devries for that and when it didnt work they brought daniel .marko ones alluded to the fact that yuki is Honda driver and when they leave redbull yuki will go wherever honda goes,so he will always be looked at as the outsider.

Alpine should cut a listed parts deal with AM-Honda and put Yuki in the lead car.

[Dunlay]

The similarity is big part of why Tsunoda is not considered. As I said earlier, RB are not choosing drivers in isolation. What do you think is going to happen when a temperamental Tsunoda can't beat Max? Red Bull can see it coming from a mile away and don't want to put Tsunoda or themselves through it.

This is a bad argument. Nobody would expect Yuki to beat Max. Yuki would know it's a hard job and would be satisfied to run close. If he doesn't, he will give reasons and excuses in the beginning and then go in a shell like Perez and Riccardo (McLaren) have been. His temperament would die down with lack of consistent success. Not too hard to guess. Simple human behaviour.

What happens if he does give Max a run for his money? How would Max behave? He doesn't like to lose to his team mate ever.

Yuki deserves the opportunity, much more than Kvyat, Albon and Gasly deserved. But being an Asian, it's normal to be ignored. If not for Yuvidhya, Albon wouldn't have got his opportunity. One should read Zhou's recent interview to understand.

[ispano6]

The similarity is big part of why Tsunoda is not considered. As I said earlier, RB are not choosing drivers in isolation. What do you think is going to happen when a temperamental Tsunoda can't beat Max? Red Bull can see it coming from a mile away and don't want to put Tsunoda or themselves through it.

This is a bad argument. Nobody would expect Yuki to beat Max. Yuki would know it's a hard job and would be satisfied to run close. If he doesn't, he will give reasons and excuses in the beginning and then go in a shell like Perez and Riccardo (McLaren) have been. His temperament would die down with lack of consistent success. Not too hard to guess. Simple human behaviour.

What happens if he does give Max a run for his money? How would Max behave? He doesn't like to lose to his team mate ever.

Yuki deserves the opportunity, much more than Kvyat, Albon and Gasly deserved. But being an Asian, it's normal to be ignored. If not for Yuvidhya, Albon wouldn't have got his opportunity. One should read Zhou's recent interview to understand.

Absolutely agree. Lawson nor Hadjar have the experience to justify a RB seat yet without having gone through the JR team. No one here will be able to produce evidence that supports such a claim within this season. Only Yuki has proven so far that he should be first up to be considered for the RBR seat. The flipside is VCARB want/need Yuki more in order to secure points of their own, but its no where near a top team or the 'big boys' that would satisfy Yuki. It could also be that Ricciardo could score more points in RB machinery than he could in VCARB machinery, which is more than what Perez could as well, so to cut their losses, they use Ric in the RB and wring out Tsunoda to dry until the Honda relationship is over. In the end it might not matter as Max might not be at RB and AMR might be where Yuki wants to be next!

[Watto]

The similarity is big part of why Tsunoda is not considered. As I said earlier, RB are not choosing drivers in isolation. What do you think is going to happen when a temperamental Tsunoda can't beat Max? Red Bull can see it coming from a mile away and don't want to put Tsunoda or themselves through it.

This is a bad argument. Nobody would expect Yuki to beat Max. Yuki would know it's a hard job and would be satisfied to run close. If he doesn't, he will give reasons and excuses in the beginning and then go in a shell like Perez and Riccardo (McLaren) have been. His temperament would die down with lack of consistent success. Not too hard to guess. Simple human behaviour.

What happens if he does give Max a run for his money? How would Max behave? He doesn't like to lose to his team mate ever.

Yuki deserves the opportunity, much more than Kvyat, Albon and Gasly deserved. But being an Asian, it's normal to be ignored. If not for Yuvidhya, Albon wouldn't have got his opportunity. One should read Zhou's recent interview to understand.

On paper I would agree that Yuki deserves the RBR seat ahead of any of the other drivers RBR gave.


I suspect sadly the Verstappen have a little too much input into who that may be.

While I tend to accept there is likely an element of hes Asian. Its also a over simplification. I though that Rosberg said a while ago about racing Hamilton comes into it - I think too why Albon has probably improved more since going to Williams. But said was more or less Lewis had a ton of natural talent but works his ass off to improve. You use him as a measuring stick. You find a track or section of a track where you are faster then him, before you know if Lewis is working twice as hard to fix that side of his driving. It takes a huge mental toll, a ton of natural talent, bring ultra competitive even with team mate, I think Max is a lot like Lewis there.That is the question it is hard to know if Yuki could handle. Can say you can only try no doubt but if but is what worse that what Perez is doing now (and I think that is the issue with Daniel too tbh would he really do much better than Perez atm, his RB form doesn't make that obvious. I think there are a lot of factors in all of this and settling on one is probably never the right answer.

[Dunlay]

The similarity is big part of why Tsunoda is not considered. As I said earlier, RB are not choosing drivers in isolation. What do you think is going to happen when a temperamental Tsunoda can't beat Max? Red Bull can see it coming from a mile away and don't want to put Tsunoda or themselves through it.

This is a bad argument. Nobody would expect Yuki to beat Max. Yuki would know it's a hard job and would be satisfied to run close. If he doesn't, he will give reasons and excuses in the beginning and then go in a shell like Perez and Riccardo (McLaren) have been. His temperament would die down with lack of consistent success. Not too hard to guess. Simple human behaviour.

What happens if he does give Max a run for his money? How would Max behave? He doesn't like to lose to his team mate ever.

Yuki deserves the opportunity, much more than Kvyat, Albon and Gasly deserved. But being an Asian, it's normal to be ignored. If not for Yuvidhya, Albon wouldn't have got his opportunity. One should read Zhou's recent interview to understand.

On paper I would agree that Yuki deserves the RBR seat ahead of any of the other drivers RBR gave.


I suspect sadly the Verstappen have a little too much input into who that may be.

While I tend to accept there is likely an element of hes Asian. Its also a over simplification. I though that Rosberg said a while ago about racing Hamilton comes into it - I think too why Albon has probably improved more since going to Williams. But said was more or less Lewis had a ton of natural talent but works his ass off to improve. You use him as a measuring stick. You find a track or section of a track where you are faster then him, before you know if Lewis is working twice as hard to fix that side of his driving. It takes a huge mental toll, a ton of natural talent, bring ultra competitive even with team mate, I think Max is a lot like Lewis there.That is the question it is hard to know if Yuki could handle. Can say you can only try no doubt but if but is what worse that what Perez is doing now (and I think that is the issue with Daniel too tbh would he really do much better than Perez atm, his RB form doesn't make that obvious. I think there are a lot of factors in all of this and settling on one is probably never the right answer.

Red Bull (or Newey?) have always designed the car for one driver. Fast cars, but with inherent balance issues that requires a specific kind of driver to drive around those issues and bring performance out. It reminds me of Honda-Marc Marquez situation. If Red Bull loses Max and doesn't get a top of the line driver, they are doomed. They will be midfield team at best. They need to fix that approach. That would make life easier for the second driver and then you don't have to guess if a driver is going to perform or not in those tricky cars. They have lost good drivers like Gasly and Albon because the cars they drove were way off balance. Instead of comparing to Max and speculating if the second driver is going to perform or not, they should learn to build cars that work for variety of driver preferences. It would then make it easier to take drivers from the grid and get them working.

[Curbstone]

Red Bull (or Newey) don't design the car for one driver, that's just nonsense. they design a car which is as quick as possible and can still be controlled bf the driver, preferably both of them but at least one . The best driver is the one who is fast, has a lot of feeling for the car and can adapt quickly between different driving styles.
When you change that approach, your car will have less potential in the car and thus be less quick. Combine that with a driver who needs an 'easy' car and whom probably isn't such be a great driver, you will lose performance on both sides (car and driver) and you will still be lost in the midfield.

Also, without that approach, they wouldn't have won the championship in 2021, so it's not a faulty approach..

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Red Bull designs fast cars and has talented driver who can use the full potential of the car, while less talented drivers are not able to do so. The RB20 is not a hybrid-Mercedes, which can be dominant even when its engine is underpowered and can be driven towards victory by a reserve driver (Russell, Bahrain 2020).

[Henk_v]

Well, if you have only one specially talented driver, or better a driver with some special talents only one of your drives possesses, then designing a car that requires those talents to be driven to its full extend is the same as designing the car for one (of) your drivers.

But then again, we are all spectators here. We know Max likes a looser tail. But how much? It would be great fun to have all drivers on the grid do a lap in the RB19, set up just how Max likes it and see how they cope. Would most struggle or may we assume any driver worth F1 can manage and we are talking minor differences?

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Well, if you have only one specially talented driver, or better a driver with some special talents only one of your drives possesses, then designing a car that requires those talents to be driven to its full extend is the same as designing the car for one (of) your drivers.

But then again, we are all spectators here. We know Max likes a looser tail. But how much? It would be great fun to have all drivers on the grid do a lap in the RB19, set up just how Max likes it and see how they cope. Would most struggle or may we assume any driver worth F1 can manage and we are talking minor differences?

Max is 78 points ahead and moving towards the championship. We can say Red Bull has done a great job with its car design. The problem is the sh*tty driver in the other car. If the car had been designed so that both drivers would have had equal amounts of fun, would they have even had any wins this season?

Like Toto said, "Max is winning the races, not Red Bull," so would Red Bull have even been the dominant team without taking this design path? I think not. Red Bull's (Max's) dominance is an entirely different story than Merc had in the hybrid era. Red Bull's domination was based on Max's talent with good and uniq car, while Merc's was based on a superior engine and car.

[Wynters]

2021 was openly rigged, 2022 and 2023 Perez wins the WDC if he's lead driver. This year's a bit of different story (Perez still wins 3 of the first four races in that scenario but now the performance gap has closed up Verstappen is making a demonstrable difference) , but to pretend that Verstappen is the key ingredient to Redbull somehow 'scraping' the last three WDCs is fanciful at best. Put almost any midfield driver in the car for the last three years, and they're a triple WDC. Red Bull have done a superlative job in this era.

[Curbstone]

Well, if you have only one specially talented driver, or better a driver with some special talents only one of your drives possesses, then designing a car that requires those talents to be driven to its full extend is the same as designing the car for one (of) your drivers.

But then again, we are all spectators here. We know Max likes a looser tail. But how much? It would be great fun to have all drivers on the grid do a lap in the RB19, set up just how Max likes it and see how they cope. Would most struggle or may we assume any driver worth F1 can manage and we are talking minor differences?

I have never heard such a thing, and I don't think any F1 driver really likes a loose tail.
I do know Max prefers a very pointy front end, and can handle the loose tail which is sometimes a result of setting up a pointy front.
I think we have a pretty

[Curbstone]

Max is 78 points ahead and moving towards the championship. We can say Red Bull has done a great job with its car design...

You design the car for a full year, not just half a year. Let's have a look at the points tally and number of wins at the end of the year before we state Red Bull did a great job with it's car design.
I have some strong doubts. Looking at the steps others have made it doesn't seem they are close to the performance ceiling, so I don't believe RB should be either.

[chrisc90]

2021 was openly rigged, 2022 and 2023 Perez wins the WDC if he's lead driver. This year's a bit of different story (Perez still wins 3 of the first four races in that scenario but now the performance gap has closed up Verstappen is making a demonstrable difference) , but to pretend that Verstappen is the key ingredient to Redbull somehow 'scraping' the last three WDCs is fanciful at best. Put almost any midfield driver in the car for the last three years, and they're a triple WDC. Red Bull have done a superlative job in this era.

Same for every driver with a WDC(s) then right?

Bit harsh to discredit Max as a driver imho