2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Chuckjr]

Well, if you have only one specially talented driver, or better a driver with some special talents only one of your drives possesses, then designing a car that requires those talents to be driven to its full extend is the same as designing the car for one (of) your drivers.

But then again, we are all spectators here. We know Max likes a looser tail. But how much? It would be great fun to have all drivers on the grid do a lap in the RB19, set up just how Max likes it and see how they cope. Would most struggle or may we assume any driver worth F1 can manage and we are talking minor differences?

I have never heard such a thing, and I don't think any F1 driver really likes a loose tail.
I do know Max prefers a very pointy front end, and can handle the loose tail which is sometimes a result of setting up a pointy front.
I think we have a pretty

Hmm. I’m not so sure about that.

I think it was Schumacher who said he would steer with the throttle (rear wheels), and his hands would simply keep up. It’s described very well here:



You can also see it here with Senna:



They talk about Senna’s odd throttle technique here:



Martin Brundle said at one point in a race a few years ago, that the rear tires need to be slipping about 5% for best possible side grip and forward traction. This would also indicate any driver who could drive up to that 5% and ride that 5% w/o losing control, would be fastest in technique. It seems that’s what Schumacher is claiming he could do in the above YouTube video. Also, the comparison to Herbert’s throttle and steering input render the same story: the best drivers steer with throttle.

[yooogurt]

I don't understand how this hypothesis works.

The valve ban will only appear in Zandvoort, and RB problems supposedly started in Miami because of it.

[chrisc90]

First the suspension, not the brakes…more media clickbait throwing shade at RBR. Can tell it’s summer break.

[CMSMJ1]

First the suspension, not the brakes…more media clickbait throwing shade at RBR. Can tell it’s summer break.

It looks pretty smelly though, right?

On a wider note - let's keep the hyperbole and whataboutism away from this. There is a thread on this split axle - be good to see that used for the sensible, dispassionate and technical review of this fairly clever technology

[Sieper]

I will say that Redbull also switched brake supplier this season. I had written the brake failure in 3rd race of the season off to that.

[Quantum]

Calum Nicholas denying it.




But, the odd thing is he's powertrain integration.
https://www.silverstone.co.uk/news/red- ... journey-f1

The vast majority of Calum’s job focuses on the systems that integrate the power unit into the chassis including the cooling systems, pipe work for oil, water and ERS, exhaust systems and the coolers themselves, as well as any other pipe work or other things that integrate the power unit into the chassis.

What would he be doing with the brakes?
If there was a brake line valve, it would be fully independent of the powertrain and it's auxiliaries.
ie. Not his department

[organic]

He's a mechanic in the garage every weekend

[Quantum]

He's a mechanic in the garage every weekend

Not sure I was clear.
Yes, he's a mechanic in the garage every weekend. We established this fact by way of the citations I provided.
Specifically, prepping the PU and checking it's fluids.
Not responsible for the brakes or any lines associated to the brake function. This would be a role for someone else. Maybe that's clearer.

[deadhead]

How much of an outlier is the Chinese GP circuit because the race pace gaps there were like this:

1 - Red Bull: 0.000s
2 - McLaren: 0.770s
3 - Ferrari: 1.279s
4 - Mercedes: 1.479s

https://x.com/f1bigdata/status/18241385 ... 2n8am2mMAg

And that gap basically vanished from the following race and it has been missing since.

I just assumed that McLaren’s upgrade package was the main culprit.

[K1Plus]

How much of an outlier is the Chinese GP circuit because the race pace gaps there were like this:

1 - Red Bull: 0.000s
2 - McLaren: 0.770s
3 - Ferrari: 1.279s
4 - Mercedes: 1.479s

https://x.com/f1bigdata/status/18241385 ... 2n8am2mMAg

And that gap basically vanished from the following race and it has been missing since.

I just assumed that McLaren’s upgrade package was the main culprit.

Might be a little bit of both the McLaren upgrade and Red Bull being slowed down. That's just my opinion.
Now in the past few races, McLaren, Mercedes and Red Bull were within 1.5 tenths on race pace if correct, right?

[Curbstone]

He's a mechanic in the garage every weekend

Not sure I was clear.
Yes, he's a mechanic in the garage every weekend. We established this fact by way of the citations I provided.
Specifically, prepping the PU and checking it's fluids.
Not responsible for the brakes or any lines associated to the brake function. This would be a role for someone else. Maybe that's clearer.

I'm pretty sure he also talks to his colleagues in the garage, especially about the technical parts of the car and the rumors about other teams cheating.
Why would he comment on something like this without being absolute sure?

[organic]

He's a mechanic in the garage every weekend

Not sure I was clear.
Yes, he's a mechanic in the garage every weekend. We established this fact by way of the citations I provided.
Specifically, prepping the PU and checking it's fluids.
Not responsible for the brakes or any lines associated to the brake function. This would be a role for someone else. Maybe that's clearer.

Not sure if you were trying to be condescending, but it's not helpful to constructive discussion and not appreciated.

My point is that he doesn't work on the power unit in a vacuum. Your suggestion that because he works on the PU he would therefore necessarily not know anything about the braking system of the rb20 is ridiculous

[Curbstone]

Max is 78 points ahead and moving towards the championship. We can say Red Bull has done a great job with its car design...

You design the car for a full year, not just half a year. Let's have a look at the points tally and number of wins at the end of the year before we state Red Bull did a great job with it's car design.
I have some strong doubts. Looking at the steps others have made it doesn't seem they are close to the performance ceiling, so I don't believe RB should be either.

Yes, you design the car for the full year. They have chosen their aim for the WDC, and if Max will be champion, how can we doubt their design path? They clearly haven't got such dominant tools like the hybrid-Mercedes that they can run their cars underpowered, so Red Bull has chosen this design path so Max can push it to the limit and towards the championship. If they had chosen a different design path, could they even fight either championship and Perez would be happier? We'll never know.

How do you know they have chosen to aim for WDC? At the end of last year they were convinced the could sort out the weaknesses of 2023, last years they already put a lot of effort to give the car a wider set-up window in order to have Perez be more comfortable with the car, and for this year they changed some concepts in order to bring more room for development. This doesn't sound like a team that will design a car just for Max. Also, Max has been complaining a lot about not having a strong front-end and having difficulties to rotate the car.
I don't believe it's a design path that suits Max. I think the car has some serious flaws which makes it hard to setup and which requires an exceptional driver to drive around the issues.

[basti313]

Calum Nicholas denying it.

https://twitter.com/F1mech/status/1824323335410290773


But, the odd thing is he's powertrain integration.
https://www.silverstone.co.uk/news/red- ... journey-f1

The vast majority of Calum’s job focuses on the systems that integrate the power unit into the chassis including the cooling systems, pipe work for oil, water and ERS, exhaust systems and the coolers themselves, as well as any other pipe work or other things that integrate the power unit into the chassis.

What would he be doing with the brakes?
If there was a brake line valve, it would be fully independent of the powertrain and it's auxiliaries.
ie. Not his department

There can not be a brake line valve. The relevant rules and technical infos are quoted in the thread for this topic.

It simply needs to be coming from the ERS or engine braking if there is something to play with right/left brake force. In this regard it is in his department. Still it would not be hardware, but software.

[Curbstone]

Well, if you have only one specially talented driver, or better a driver with some special talents only one of your drives possesses, then designing a car that requires those talents to be driven to its full extend is the same as designing the car for one (of) your drivers.

But then again, we are all spectators here. We know Max likes a looser tail. But how much? It would be great fun to have all drivers on the grid do a lap in the RB19, set up just how Max likes it and see how they cope. Would most struggle or may we assume any driver worth F1 can manage and we are talking minor differences?

I have never heard such a thing, and I don't think any F1 driver really likes a loose tail.
I do know Max prefers a very pointy front end, and can handle the loose tail which is sometimes a result of setting up a pointy front.
I think we have a pretty

At a given grip level, a more pointy front equals a looser tail, but yes, let's split that hair and make this place fun!

This isn't splitting hairs, it's correcting the concept of a drivers preferred style. You are turning a 'necessary evil' into a 'preference'. If you don't care about the accuracy of this then there isn't much point in discussing it either.