2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FDD]

It's obvious a janitor would do a better job running as TP and TD than anyone else is now doing. Get Vasseur on toilet duty! Even the WT update must have brought it to where RB and McLaren WT were 5-10 years ago!

The last 3-4 posts of You are the best ones You ever made, You are spot on.
Disasters for FER are yet to come.

[Vanja #66]

The last 3-4 posts of You are the best ones You ever made, You are spot on.
Disasters for FER are yet to come.

It's years of pain followed by decades of pain for us!

[catent]

They reduced the downforce to stop the car from bouncing, but now it seems they're struggling in the fast corners as a result. That's my understanding of the situation.

https://x.com/Fred__18/status/1827029400401146241

Took this from the Autosport forum. This actually suggests the most time is being lost in low-speed corners, with high-speed corners being next in line.



Bit of a bizarre look and seems to suggest Ferrari is running a setup that is especially different than most of the other teams, something Vasseur alluded to ("we need to optimize the setup"). Makes me wonder if they're planning for a dry race, opting to take less DF which will perhaps sacrifice a bit during a potentially wet qualifying, in order to attempt to have a leg-up during a dry Sunday.

I'm not saying this is a good or a bad idea, I really can't say, but something seems a bit unusual for Ferrari compared to the rest of the grid that cannot be explained solely by differences in raw pace, and I would have to think it is (at least partially) setup related to some extent.

Leclerc mentioned in a recent interview that Zandvoort would not be kind to the SF-24, but he also expressed a strong degree of certainty that the team had unlocked the identity of the SF-24 during the weeks preceding summer break (ala Zandvoort 2023) and that they would have a thorough understanding of the car dynamics and how to best setup and optimize moving forward, which gave me a lot of confidence. It could be that the setup the SF-24 demands to go optimally is simply incompatible with a track like Zandvoort, and speaks to the need to evolve/upgrade the 2025 car to be more versatile/robust/adaptable across multiple setup windows, at multiple tracks.

[Chaoz]

It's interesting to see, what Vasseur will tell us when Ferrari is on "suiting" circuits like Monza and Singapur, but in the same position like now.

[Vanja #66]

Took this from the Autosport forum. This actually suggests the most time is being lost in low-speed corners, with high-speed corners being next in line.

https://i.postimg.cc/1Xwsw5QR/GVs-D-f-PXUAAM2nj.jpg

Bit of a bizarre look and seems to suggest Ferrari is running a setup that is especially different than most of the other teams, something Vasseur alluded to ("we need to optimize the setup"). Makes me wonder if they're planning for a dry race, opting to take less DF which will perhaps sacrifice a bit during a potentially wet qualifying, in order to attempt to have a leg-up during a dry Sunday.

I'm not saying this is a good or a bad idea, I really can't say, but something seems a bit unusual for Ferrari compared to the rest of the grid that cannot be explained solely by differences in raw pace, and I would have to think it is (at least partially) setup related to some extent.

Leclerc mentioned in a recent interview that Zandvoort would not be kind to the SF-24, but he also expressed a strong degree of certainty that the team had unlocked the identity of the SF-24 during the weeks preceding summer break (ala Zandvoort 2023) and that they would have a thorough understanding of the car dynamics and how to best setup and optimize moving forward, which gave me a lot of confidence. It could be that the setup the SF-24 demands to go optimally is simply incompatible with a track like Zandvoort, and speaks to the need to evolve/upgrade the 2025 car to be more versatile/robust/adaptable across multiple setup windows, at multiple tracks.

There's a number of small things contributing to Ferrari's deficit with this Hungary spec floor. The floor is the most sensitive to low ride height ondulations it was since SF-23 launch spec and the Hungary update reduces that only slightly. This makes it difficult to drive on edge when cornering speeds are greater, as we've seen in Hunagry Q3 and final stints in Hungary and Spa, as this is one sudden bouncing occurs and throws the driver off.

Ferrari's running slightly softer suspension than RB and others since 2022. Before TD-39 it was the best choice in 2022, but TD-39 and strict limits to bouncing amplitudes required them to raise the car and loose raw pace. This slightly softer suspension concept carried over to 23 and 24. When I say this, I don't mean individual weekend setup cases, I mean their setup window that can support tyres within their operating temperature window. Within this window, they have typically been setup for medium and high speed corners (usually means slightly stiffer in their case) this year, and especially since Barcelona update. However, this hampers their low speed capabilities on most tracks, but overall is the best compromise over a lap.

You'll remember that in Monaco they were actually faster (ie softer) than others in slow corners. Verstappen dominates T1 the whole weekend, as it is a fairly quick corner actually and aero load is important. This means their base setup window can run softer than other cars, because you always want to set the car up as soft as possible in Monaco. I have no idea if you can design a suspension so that you can have both a softer and stiffer limit than any other car on the grid, but so far in these 3 years no one did it. RB19 was simply so dominant, they could hide their slow speed deficits and make it up in faster sections (like Verstappen's Monaco 23 Q3 lap in pool section chicanes)

This design choice for SF24 suspension is not surprising, it follows Ferrari's recent preferences (arguably in the last 6-7 years at least) and follows design concept taken since 2022. However, Ferrari's been missing a highly-capable suspension and vehicle dynamics engineer with decades of experience to lead this department. As I mentioned a while ago, the last TD with education background in this area was Aldo Costa. Seems like Serra will be taking over from Monza, so finally this won't be the case anymore. As aero influence and development options will be dramatically reduced in 26 and later, proper concept with vehicle dynamics as an absolute priority (as it always should be, of course) is a must. This is why some of us (dialtone, Brandon, me, etc) are happy with the choice of Serra as TD

[catent]

Took this from the Autosport forum. This actually suggests the most time is being lost in low-speed corners, with high-speed corners being next in line.

https://i.postimg.cc/1Xwsw5QR/GVs-D-f-PXUAAM2nj.jpg

Bit of a bizarre look and seems to suggest Ferrari is running a setup that is especially different than most of the other teams, something Vasseur alluded to ("we need to optimize the setup"). Makes me wonder if they're planning for a dry race, opting to take less DF which will perhaps sacrifice a bit during a potentially wet qualifying, in order to attempt to have a leg-up during a dry Sunday.

I'm not saying this is a good or a bad idea, I really can't say, but something seems a bit unusual for Ferrari compared to the rest of the grid that cannot be explained solely by differences in raw pace, and I would have to think it is (at least partially) setup related to some extent.

Leclerc mentioned in a recent interview that Zandvoort would not be kind to the SF-24, but he also expressed a strong degree of certainty that the team had unlocked the identity of the SF-24 during the weeks preceding summer break (ala Zandvoort 2023) and that they would have a thorough understanding of the car dynamics and how to best setup and optimize moving forward, which gave me a lot of confidence. It could be that the setup the SF-24 demands to go optimally is simply incompatible with a track like Zandvoort, and speaks to the need to evolve/upgrade the 2025 car to be more versatile/robust/adaptable across multiple setup windows, at multiple tracks.

There's a number of small things contributing to Ferrari's deficit with this Hungary spec floor. The floor is the most sensitive to low ride height ondulations it was since SF-23 launch spec and the Hungary update reduces that only slightly. This makes it difficult to drive on edge when cornering speeds are greater, as we've seen in Hunagry Q3 and final stints in Hungary and Spa, as this is one sudden bouncing occurs and throws the driver off.

Ferrari's running slightly softer suspension than RB and others since 2022. Before TD-39 it was the best choice in 2022, but TD-39 and strict limits to bouncing amplitudes required them to raise the car and loose raw pace. This slightly softer suspension concept carried over to 23 and 24. When I say this, I don't mean individual weekend setup cases, I mean their setup window that can support tyres within their operating temperature window. Within this window, they have typically been setup for medium and high speed corners (usually means slightly stiffer in their case) this year, and especially since Barcelona update. However, this hampers their low speed capabilities on most tracks, but overall is the best compromise over a lap.

You'll remember that in Monaco they were actually faster (ie softer) than others in slow corners. Verstappen dominates T1 the whole weekend, as it is a fairly quick corner actually and aero load is important. This means their base setup window can run softer than other cars, because you always want to set the car up as soft as possible in Monaco. I have no idea if you can design a suspension so that you can have both a softer and stiffer limit than any other car on the grid, but so far in these 3 years no one did it. RB19 was simply so dominant, they could hide their slow speed deficits and make it up in faster sections (like Verstappen's Monaco 23 Q3 lap in pool section chicanes)

This design choice for SF24 suspension is not surprising, it follows Ferrari's recent preferences (arguably in the last 6-7 years at least) and follows design concept taken since 2022. However, Ferrari's been missing a highly-capable suspension and vehicle dynamics engineer with decades of experience to lead this department. As I mentioned a while ago, the last TD with education background in this area was Aldo Costa. Seems like Serra will be taking over from Monza, so finally this won't be the case anymore. As aero influence and development options will be dramatically reduced in 26 and later, proper concept with vehicle dynamics as an absolute priority (as it always should be, of course) is a must. This is why some of us (dialtone, Brandon, me, etc) are happy with the choice of Serra as TD

Thanks for this post, all the info - this is helpful and interesting.

Imagine if Vasseur had managed to pry Aldo Costa away from Dallara to return as TD with Serra as Head of Chassis (or vice versa).

It does seem Serra will bring knowledge/experience that is lacking; hopefully his influence on the 2025 car, specifically suspension, chassis design, general dynamics, CoG, etc (all the things you mention) will add polish in areas that have been lacking. There is reason for optimism. Heck, maybe he can even help optimize the SF-24 over the latter part of the 2024 season (although I expect the inherent limitations are tough to get around that late into a season).

Cardile's focus on aero at all costs - with a seeming disregard for (or underappreciation of) suspension dynamics - may explain why he was allowed out without much effort to keep him.

[yooogurt]

Imagine if Vasseur had managed to pry Aldo Costa away from Dallara to return as TD with Serra as Head of Chassis (or vice versa).

As I remember, when they were looking for a new TP, Elkann approached Costa too, but he turned it down.

[Vanja #66]

Thanks for this post, all the info - this is helpful and interesting.

Imagine if Vasseur had managed to pry Aldo Costa away from Dallara to return as TD with Serra as Head of Chassis (or vice versa).

It does seem Serra will bring knowledge/experience that is lacking; hopefully his influence on the 2025 car, specifically suspension, chassis design, general dynamics, CoG, etc (all the things you mention) will add polish in areas that have been lacking. There is reason for optimism. Heck, maybe he can even help optimize the SF-24 over the latter part of the 2024 season (although I expect the inherent limitations are tough to get around that late into a season).

Cardile's focus on aero at all costs - with a seeming disregard for (or underappreciation of) suspension dynamics - may explain why he was allowed out without much effort to keep him.

I'm glad it was helpful, it's always a pleasure to add something to a meaningful discussion on this forum

I'm still hoping that "Mister X" is Costa. His last name has 5 letters too Costa was extremely important for Mercedes chassis design in 14-21 period and Brawn had no problem grabbing him as soon as di Montezemolo fired Costa in 2011.

Cardille did a very good job to turn things around on aero side last year. He also guided the design that lead to the strong start in 2024. His choice as TD was forced in a way, I don't think Vasseur had any other option to quickly replace Binotto as acting TD so soon. Cardille simply lacked the non-aero experience for such an important position, but is regarded for his organisational skills. He didn't make a bad car this year, but it is a bit too limited on suspension side

I wouldn't be surprised if Vasseur targeting Serra for such a high position was why Wolff was so insistant on keeping Serra in Mercedes as long as possible last year. It was a gentleman move of Vasseur to let Cardille go immediately, I would have kept him in gardening leave or actively in the team in reduced capacity as long as possible

[Xyz22]

Hopefully they validated a good setup for these conditions.

The realistic goal is to be ahead of Perez. Let's see if they can do something better.

[JPower]

Track evo helped a lot there. Sainz did a good job of nailing that lap despite the lack of run time.

[Xyz22]

Track evo helped a lot there. Sainz did a good job of nailing that lap despite the lack of run time.

At least the session started dry already which allowed him to make a few laps to get into the rhythm.

[CouncilorIrissa]

Fighting AM now.
This keeps getting better and better.

[yooogurt]

Wind are so big factor here

[deadhead]

Imagine if Vasseur had managed to pry Aldo Costa away from Dallara to return as TD with Serra as Head of Chassis (or vice versa).

As I remember, when they were looking for a new TP, Elkann approached Costa too, but he turned it down.

I don't think Serra was the first choice for TD

[Fakepivot]

Puff, damn those mclaren are tooo quick.. not sure what upgrade Ferrari can bring that will get them that close..