2024 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Aug 30 - Sep 1

[CaribouBread]

It's not PIA that lost the MCL 1-2, it's the strange strategy calls and whatever reason you may have for Lando making his 1st set of hard tires last 10 laps. The rest is just racing and excuses imho.

Well put. People are stuck on the first lap overtake and completely overlooking the second stint performance. Ferrari won the race there, not on lap 1.

[JordanMugen]

Nothing wrong with the Piastri pass. The Macca strat was just rubbish when they had the pace they had.

Agreed!

McLaren didn't make it clear to Piastri that a one stop strategy was needed to attempt to win. Oh well.

Damn near every single race since Miami has been amazing and predicting the winner has been an exercise in futility. We should really take the time to appreciate just how good this season is.

That's true. A lot of this could be due to Norris' underperformance! He seems to make hard work of winning in the fastest car (apart from Zandvoort). Would Verstappen really have such a low rate of victory as Norris in the McLaren over the last 6-8 races?

[ismail1991]

Nothing wrong with the Piastri pass. The Macca strat was just rubbish when they had the pace they had.

I agree nothing wrong with Piastri passing Norris. Norris is not driving like a champ. This is the 2nd time I remember at which Max started the race 4-5 places lower than Norris. If Norris won one of those races, there would be big dent on Max point advantage. However, he is not capable of doing it.

[organic]

Nothing wrong with the Piastri pass. The Macca strat was just rubbish when they had the pace they had.

I agree nothing wrong with Piastri passing Norris. Norris is not driving like a champ. This is the 2nd time I remember at which Max started the race 4-5 places lower than Norris. If Norris won one of those races, there would be big dent on Max point advantage. However, he is not capable of doing it.

Today Max started 7 places behind Norris. Finish 3 places apart

[Tvetovnato]

Nonsense to blame Piastri for any of this. It’s all on McLaren. Piastri raced as he was allowed to and did nothing wrong, period. He can think of himself and not Norris until McLaren tells him not to.

And McLaren’s pit wall needs to combine the driver input with what is observable on the timing sheets. Even if Piastri thinks it will be hard to make a onestopper work, chances are Leclerc thought so too given he was not gaining at the time they brought Oscar in. At that point they had Lando leading the two stoppers and Oscar leading the one-stoppers. No brainer to keep him out until Leclerc starts closing in, if he even manages to. They need to shape up for real in this department.

[venkyhere]

I haven't gone and read the Mclaren team thread yet, but I can guess that the narrative is going to be revolving around :
- PIA screwed NOR in the first lap
- NOR is so poor with converting pole to P1 in first lap
- McLaren aren't imposing team orders when they should (whether it be for 1st lap or whether swapping them at the end)

This narrative is missing the forest for the trees. The real issue is :
- McLaren driver-vs-pitwall judgement call was poor when they pitted from M too early, there was no need to, they could've easily extended their first stint for 5 more laps, even if they lost 0.2/0.3 per lap to people undercutting them. Such was the race pace advantage.
- given that McLaren went for the conservative 'lets cover for the undercut by pitting from M to H' , they didn't ask their drivers to restrain their pace on the fresh H even a bit, and to bring in the tyres gently, to check the possibility of a one stop. They just went, 'everyone is on two stop, let's do so too' and allowed the tyres to burn up needlessly. This resposibility has to be split between the pitwall and the drivers.

[Seerix]

I haven't gone and read the Mclaren team thread yet, but I can guess that the narrative is going to be revolving around :
- PIA screwed NOR in the first lap
- NOR is so poor with converting pole to P1 in first lap
- McLaren aren't imposing team orders when they should (whether it be for 1st lap or whether swapping them at the end)

This narrative is missing the forest for the trees. The real issue is :
- McLaren driver-vs-pitwall judgement call was poor when they pitted from M too early, there was no need to, they could've easily extended their first stint for 5 more laps, even if they lost 0.2/0.3 per lap to people undercutting them. Such was the race pace advantage.
- given that McLaren went for the conservative 'lets cover for the undercut by pitting from M to H' , they didn't ask their drivers to restrain their pace on the fresh H even a bit, and to bring in the tyres gently, to check the possibility of a one stop. They just went, 'everyone is on two stop, let's do so too' and allowed the tyres to burn up needlessly. This resposibility has to be split between the pitwall and the drivers.

So you are saying they should stay out and not undercut Leclerc for P2, right?
Exactly what they did like last race with PIA who god stuck behind LEC with a car which won by 23s.
Seems like they only should undercut and overcut if they know what happens in the future. Bcz apparently undercut today was bad and overcut last race with dominant car was also bad.

[bluechris]

I don't get the bashing on Norris, who in his right of mind had thought that Piastri would attack him like this in the first lap? Norris saved a crash there with his hotheaded teammate. His start was fine today but the guys behind had tow and that's why Piastri went for it but it was totally wrong. They started for 1-2 and got 2-3.
Why Piastri with 60 or so points difference from Norris attacked? I really don't get it what they do in McLaren and they give signs of a very small team with this kind of things. The simply thing was to tell to your both drivers to be extra careful on the 1st lap and not to do whatever they like.
Great result for Ferrari and great driving from Leclerc, a well deserved victory and team comes slowly were they need to be.

[venkyhere]

So you are saying they should stay out and not undercut Leclerc for P2, right?
Exactly what they did like last race with PIA who god stuck behind LEC with a car which won by 23s.
Seems like they only should undercut and overcut if they know what happens in the future. Bcz apparently undercut today was bad and overcut last race with dominant car was also bad.

"track with short DRS straight renowned for track-position-is-king"
v/s
"track that's renowned for DRS overtakes with end of straight turn1 modified to encourage more overtaking"

you seem to think the thinking hat should be the same for both. The real call is 'judgement about tyres, and how severely to push'. It's not undercut vs overcut. It's not a binary 1 or 0 decision. It's not 'planA or planB, we do one or the other'. It should be 'what flavour of planA and what flavour of planB'.

I have nothing more to say.

[Gillian]

Nothing wrong with the Piastri pass. The Macca strat was just rubbish when they had the pace they had.

Agreed!

McLaren didn't make it clear to Piastri that a one stop strategy was needed to attempt to win. Oh well.

Damn near every single race since Miami has been amazing and predicting the winner has been an exercise in futility. We should really take the time to appreciate just how good this season is.

That's true. A lot of this could be due to Norris' underperformance! He seems to make hard work of winning in the fastest car (apart from Zandvoort). Would Verstappen really have such a low rate of victory as Norris in the McLaren over the last 6-8 races?

Exactly. Verstappen would have won them all most likely. Norris is perfect examply why you shouldn't think lightly of a WDC driving, just because he is driving the best car.

I don't get the Piastri criticim. His team boss is adamant about equal chances for both drivers. They even gave points to Piastri because "equal chances". So why should he now roll the red carpet out for Norris?

Im having deja vu 2007. Mclaren should have won the drivers championship then but failed due to their own mis management. Seems they havent learned anything.

Brown already starting to talk positive about Verstappen. Seems he is now starting to realize he needs more than just the fastest car.

[avantman]

MCL was 1-2 for the 2nd stint, if Lando gets 2nd in the end it's still game. Lando did 10 laps on hards in his 2nd stint, is this also Piastri's fault?

Lando did 18 laps on hard on the 2nd stint.

[avantman]

Brown already starting to talk positive about Verstappen. Seems he is now starting to realize he needs more than just the fastest car.

what did he say?

[dialtone]

MCL was 1-2 for the 2nd stint, if Lando gets 2nd in the end it's still game. Lando did 10 laps on hards in his 2nd stint, is this also Piastri's fault?

Lando did 18 laps on hard on the 2nd stint.

My bad but still, 14 on medium and 18 on hards looks good to you?

[Seanspeed]

I don't get the bashing on Norris, who in his right of mind had thought that Piastri would attack him like this in the first lap? Norris saved a crash there with his hotheaded teammate. His start was fine today but the guys behind had tow and that's why Piastri went for it but it was totally wrong. They started for 1-2 and got 2-3.
Why Piastri with 60 or so points difference from Norris attacked? I really don't get it what they do in McLaren and they give signs of a very small team with this kind of things. The simply thing was to tell to your both drivers to be extra careful on the 1st lap and not to do whatever they like.
Great result for Ferrari and great driving from Leclerc, a well deserved victory and team comes slowly were they need to be.

Hot-headed? Piastri had a clear opportunity and took it. That's what any driver worth their salt would do.

[bluechris]

I don't get the bashing on Norris, who in his right of mind had thought that Piastri would attack him like this in the first lap? Norris saved a crash there with his hotheaded teammate. His start was fine today but the guys behind had tow and that's why Piastri went for it but it was totally wrong. They started for 1-2 and got 2-3.
Why Piastri with 60 or so points difference from Norris attacked? I really don't get it what they do in McLaren and they give signs of a very small team with this kind of things. The simply thing was to tell to your both drivers to be extra careful on the 1st lap and not to do whatever they like.
Great result for Ferrari and great driving from Leclerc, a well deserved victory and team comes slowly were they need to be.

Hot-headed? Piastri had a clear opportunity and took it. That's what any driver worth their salt would do.

Well i don't believe that and it is obvious from Norris reaction in the moment and afterwards. I have never saw Norris like this before, it was hard landing and that event will change his behaviour. This is the second time this year he lands hard, 1st was when he crashed with Verstappen and this is the second. I don't believe that Norris didn't had trust in Piastri that he will don't do any crazy thing and did drove with the assurance that his teammate will behave correctly at least in the first lap. That is the reason i think McLaren heads and strategists are loaned by Ferrari for this race. I mean Jesus, they didn't discuss to be sure and safe before the race start? and they want the championship? No way, this is kindergarten stuff.