2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Piastri is a racing driver, of course he will go for the gap if Norris leaves the door open. This is a consequence of McLaren not having the balls to freeze their drivers positions.

[BMMR61]

Piastri is a racing driver, of course he will go for the gap if Norris leaves the door open. This is a consequence of McLaren not having the balls to freeze their drivers positions.

Oscar Piastri is a ruthless and clinical overtaker, a real racer and champion - without those instincts he would be unlikely to win F1 championships. If we took some people's ideas on team orders to their logical conclusion then whoever leads after the first race gets priority. 8 races to go, championship well alive, please stop whining people, this is a great season the way it's playing out.

[FittingMechanics]

They will realize that the reason they lost the win is because they were too focused on each other. Changes will be made, I am sure of it.

Let's get Baku amd Singapore.

[FittingMechanics]

Piastri is a racing driver, of course he will go for the gap if Norris leaves the door open. This is a consequence of McLaren not having the balls to freeze their drivers positions.

Oscar Piastri is a ruthless and clinical overtaker, a real racer and champion - without those instincts he would be unlikely to win F1 championships. If we took some people's ideas on team orders to their logical conclusion then whoever leads after the first race gets priority. 8 races to go, championship well alive, please stop whining people, this is a great season the way it's playing out.

Piastri should be more ruthless and clinical against other people (for example in Zaandvoort) instead of against his teammate which caused thr teammate to almost spin and lose another position.

I can't shake the feeling that most of defending of Piastri is by his fans. You can't be serious that this was a better result for the team.

I am not in favor of Ferrari style team orders (Austria) but they do need to understand that by fighting Norris hard they may lose out on the WDC.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Piastri is a racing driver, of course he will go for the gap if Norris leaves the door open. This is a consequence of McLaren not having the balls to freeze their drivers positions.

Piastri also knew that if he didn't get Lando with a first lap lunge, he would never be able to pass him on pure pace after the race settled in. Because Lando has been faster in race pace all year. Which makes it even more ironic that McLaren hasn't prioritized him.

[venkyhere]

I patiently read through 10 or so pages in this thread, and the recurring theme is centered around :

- PIA screwed NOR in the first lap, and destroyed McLaren chances of 1-2 finish.
- NOR is so poor with converting pole to P1 in first lap, he needs to sort his opening lap shambles
- McLaren aren't imposing team orders when they should (whether it be for 1st lap or whether swapping them at the end)

This theme is missing the forest for the trees, IMHO. Please hear me out :

- McLaren driver-vs-pitwall judgement call was poor when they pitted from M too early, there was no need to, they could've easily extended their first stint for 5 more laps, even if they lost 0.2/0.3 per lap to people undercutting them. Such was the race pace advantage, on any tyre. That could have easily brought to the fore a clear 1 stop strategy.

- given that McLaren went for the conservative 'lets cover for the undercut by pitting from M to H' , they didn't ask their drivers to restrain their pace on the 2nd stint with the fresh H, even a bit, to bring in the tyres gently. That would have allowed the possibility of a 1 stop even more. They just went, 'everyone is on two stop, let's do so too' and allowed the tyres to burn up needlessly. This responsibility has to be split between the pitwall and the drivers.

In other words, McLaren as a team suffer from :
- defensive minded, conservative approach, not ready to roll the dice, even when they have the strongest car.
- PIA makes up for the talent gap with his teammate, with 'pluck'. He is that do-or-die racer, just like RUS is to the more talented HAM.
- NOR has loads of talent, but isn't ruthless enough. He needs to be able to have the mental capacity to 'disobey' sometimes. That needs to be there, to become WDC - Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen - so many examples from the modern era itself.

The McLaren team in 2024 have a car like the 2023 Redbull, but are strategising/man-managing like the 2022 Ferrari.

It's unbelievable that Verstappen is still having a 62 point lead with 8 races to go, with a car that was faster for 4 races, DNF-ed in one race, and has been 0.5s/lap (or more, in some races) slower than the McLaren for the remaining 11 races until now. It's staggering. That is the big picture.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Piastri is a racing driver, of course he will go for the gap if Norris leaves the door open. This is a consequence of McLaren not having the balls to freeze their drivers positions.

Oscar Piastri is a ruthless and clinical overtaker, a real racer and champion - without those instincts he would be unlikely to win F1 championships. If we took some people's ideas on team orders to their logical conclusion then whoever leads after the first race gets priority. 8 races to go, championship well alive, please stop whining people, this is a great season the way it's playing out.

Piastri should be more ruthless and clinical against other people (for example in Zaandvoort) instead of against his teammate which caused thr teammate to almost spin and lose another position.

I can't shake the feeling that most of defending of Piastri is by his fans. You can't be serious that this was a better result for the team.

I am not in favor of Ferrari style team orders (Austria) but they do need to understand that by fighting Norris hard they may lose out on the WDC.

Most of this partisan Piastri support is actually Lewis Hamilton fans. Who hate Lando Norris after he wasn't being sufficiently respectful to Hamilton in the cooldown room a few races ago. There was one other thing that got them mad at him. I cant remember what it was.

[Ben1980]

I still not sure people can see the nuance of the situation. It's not racing drivers race, because that's way to simplistic.

It was a great overtake, that's true.

It was also an overtake which impacted tge teams ability to maximise the race. They could have coasted it home from lap 1 and got all the points. I'm sure they didn't want to pit that early, or have a driver up behind a Ferrari for a while.

Both things can be correct, and are correct.

The team should have been stronger, after the break they should have gone in on supporting Lando. Both drivers had the same opportunity in the first half to be the challenger.

Even not swapping them on last lap was ridiculous.

[Lucky]

Helmut Marko: Thanks to Andrea Stella and Zak Brown

[geogate]

Baffles me why people think it takes "Balls" to make a racing driver play wingman to his teammate for 9 races. I would say it takes balls to let your drivers race - which mclaren have always done. The only reason there were anything coming close to team orders with MH and DC was because the car was blindingly fast but had massive reliability issues.
Mclaren lost that race because Lando locked his tyre up and had to stop early. That lost Oscar race (maybe, if he could have gone long enough to one stop).
If you are a Mclaren driver and you want to be WDC, you have to beat your team mate first - that is how it is, and it is how it has always been. This won't be the first season where a drivers championship wasn't won because its drivers raced each other - and long may that continue - it is the mclaren way

[kc_f1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thcdl1tVZco

Will Buxton is 100% correct. Mclaren will throw it away unless they come to their senses. They have already thrown away 3-4 races before the summer break. They need to stop working and racing with the mindset of a midfield team..I think they have forgotten how to race like a championship leading team.

[FittingMechanics]

I patiently read through 10 or so pages in this thread, and the recurring theme is centered around :

- PIA screwed NOR in the first lap, and destroyed McLaren chances of 1-2 finish.
- NOR is so poor with converting pole to P1 in first lap, he needs to sort his opening lap shambles
- McLaren aren't imposing team orders when they should (whether it be for 1st lap or whether swapping them at the end)

This theme is missing the forest for the trees, IMHO. Please hear me out :

- McLaren driver-vs-pitwall judgement call was poor when they pitted from M too early, there was no need to, they could've easily extended their first stint for 5 more laps, even if they lost 0.2/0.3 per lap to people undercutting them. Such was the race pace advantage, on any tyre. That could have easily brought to the fore a clear 1 stop strategy.

- given that McLaren went for the conservative 'lets cover for the undercut by pitting from M to H' , they didn't ask their drivers to restrain their pace on the 2nd stint with the fresh H, even a bit, to bring in the tyres gently. That would have allowed the possibility of a 1 stop even more. They just went, 'everyone is on two stop, let's do so too' and allowed the tyres to burn up needlessly. This responsibility has to be split between the pitwall and the drivers.

In other words, McLaren as a team suffer from :
- defensive minded, conservative approach, not ready to roll the dice, even when they have the strongest car.
- PIA makes up for the talent gap with his teammate, with 'pluck'. He is that do-or-die racer, just like RUS is to the more talented HAM.
- NOR has loads of talent, but isn't ruthless enough. He needs to be able to have the mental capacity to 'disobey' sometimes. That needs to be there, to become WDC - Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen - so many examples from the modern era itself.

The McLaren team in 2024 have a car like the 2023 Redbull, but are strategising/man-managing like the 2022 Ferrari.

It's unbelievable that Verstappen is still having a 62 point lead with 8 races to go, with a car that was faster for 4 races, DNF-ed in one race, and has been 0.5s/lap (or more, in some races) slower than the McLaren for the remaining 11 races until now. It's staggering. That is the big picture.

Really great summary. I do think we need to add another strategic blunder by McLaren where they allowed Piastri to pit onto two stop when he was in a dominant position. If he stayed on alternate strategy like Leclerc he may have made it work. If he didn't make it work and he needed to pit he would be P3 (NOR P2) or maybe maybe P4 (NOR P2, SAI P3). From interview Piastri gave to the media, it sounds like he knew Norris would "undercut" him so he wanted to go two stop because of that. Not sure that is the proper mindset for Piastri to have.

Most of this partisan Piastri support is actually Lewis Hamilton fans. Who hate Lando Norris after he wasn't being sufficiently respectful to Hamilton in the cooldown room a few races ago. There was one other thing that got them mad at him. I cant remember what it was.

I am really not following but no one can honestly say that Piastri pushing it on first lap risking their races is good for the team. It is not. It cost them a lot here and could have cost even more if Lando spun or if they hit. Next time around I expect Norris will not leave the room for Oscar and he will have to go off track. All consequences of this "we are just racing" attitude and Papaya rules. I hope I am wrong and that team brings in hard rules to prevent this from happening.

I'm a team fan and prioritize team results (including a team getting their driver WDC) over all else. If McLaren changed their both drivers for next year I would still be here rooting for the team.

[Slahinki]

Baffles me why people think it takes "Balls" to make a racing driver play wingman to his teammate for 9 races. I would say it takes balls to let your drivers race - which mclaren have always done. The only reason there were anything coming close to team orders with MH and DC was because the car was blindingly fast but had massive reliability issues.
Mclaren lost that race because Lando locked his tyre up and had to stop early. That lost Oscar race (maybe, if he could have gone long enough to one stop).
If you are a Mclaren driver and you want to be WDC, you have to beat your team mate first - that is how it is, and it is how it has always been. This won't be the first season where a drivers championship wasn't won because its drivers raced each other - and long may that continue - it is the mclaren way

I'd much prefer actually winning championships. McLaren needs to sort their team out.

[geogate]

then mclaren isnt the team for you

[Slahinki]

I patiently read through 10 or so pages in this thread, and the recurring theme is centered around :

- PIA screwed NOR in the first lap, and destroyed McLaren chances of 1-2 finish.
- NOR is so poor with converting pole to P1 in first lap, he needs to sort his opening lap shambles
- McLaren aren't imposing team orders when they should (whether it be for 1st lap or whether swapping them at the end)

This theme is missing the forest for the trees, IMHO. Please hear me out :

- McLaren driver-vs-pitwall judgement call was poor when they pitted from M too early, there was no need to, they could've easily extended their first stint for 5 more laps, even if they lost 0.2/0.3 per lap to people undercutting them. Such was the race pace advantage, on any tyre. That could have easily brought to the fore a clear 1 stop strategy.

- given that McLaren went for the conservative 'lets cover for the undercut by pitting from M to H' , they didn't ask their drivers to restrain their pace on the 2nd stint with the fresh H, even a bit, to bring in the tyres gently. That would have allowed the possibility of a 1 stop even more. They just went, 'everyone is on two stop, let's do so too' and allowed the tyres to burn up needlessly. This responsibility has to be split between the pitwall and the drivers.

In other words, McLaren as a team suffer from :
- defensive minded, conservative approach, not ready to roll the dice, even when they have the strongest car.
- PIA makes up for the talent gap with his teammate, with 'pluck'. He is that do-or-die racer, just like RUS is to the more talented HAM.
- NOR has loads of talent, but isn't ruthless enough. He needs to be able to have the mental capacity to 'disobey' sometimes. That needs to be there, to become WDC - Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen - so many examples from the modern era itself.

The McLaren team in 2024 have a car like the 2023 Redbull, but are strategising/man-managing like the 2022 Ferrari.

It's unbelievable that Verstappen is still having a 62 point lead with 8 races to go, with a car that was faster for 4 races, DNF-ed in one race, and has been 0.5s/lap (or more, in some races) slower than the McLaren for the remaining 11 races until now. It's staggering. That is the big picture.

Really great summary. I do think we need to add another strategic blunder by McLaren where they allowed Piastri to pit onto two stop when he was in a dominant position. If he stayed on alternate strategy like Leclerc he may have made it work. If he didn't make it work and he needed to pit he would be P3 (NOR P2) or maybe maybe P4 (NOR P2, SAI P3). From interview Piastri gave to the media, it sounds like he knew Norris would "undercut" him so he wanted to go two stop because of that. Not sure that is the proper mindset for Piastri to have.

Most of this partisan Piastri support is actually Lewis Hamilton fans. Who hate Lando Norris after he wasn't being sufficiently respectful to Hamilton in the cooldown room a few races ago. There was one other thing that got them mad at him. I cant remember what it was.

I am really not following but no one can honestly say that Piastri pushing it on first lap risking their races is good for the team. It is not. It cost them a lot here and could have cost even more if Lando spun or if they hit. Next time around I expect Norris will not leave the room for Oscar and he will have to go off track. All consequences of this "we are just racing" attitude and Papaya rules. I hope I am wrong and that team brings in hard rules to prevent this from happening.

I'm a team fan and prioritize team results (including a team getting their driver WDC) over all else. If McLaren changed their both drivers for next year I would still be here rooting for the team.

All I've heard from Piastri after this race makes it seem like he only cares about beating Norris, even to the detriment of his own race. McLaren need to reign him in before he causes more damage to the championships.