2024 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Aug 30 - Sep 1

[Gillian]

It would be the worst deal ever to have a rookie being able to dictate what the team can or can’t do when it comes to managing championships I can’t imagine McLaren would agree on that. If we are talking about a multi world champ who is in a position to place those kind of demands, then maybe, but a rookie??

But that literally happened in 2007! If Hamilton would have played ball, Alonso would have been champion! And I'm glad he didn't, because what would have been his chances going into the 2008 championship if he hadnt given his all and set his mark in 2007!?

Its exactly the same with Piastri. The team is not favoring one over the other, even willing to sacrifice Norris' points for Piastri (Hungary), so it totally makes sense for him to give everything to beat his teammate (as if you need any reason as a racing driver...)

But it was a very different situation in 07. McLaren weren’t playing miracle catch-up as they are now. Hamilton led the championship from very early on, so if anyone should have been backed it could just as well have been him after half the season had passed. McLaren had their ”papaya” (or chrome?) policy back then as well, but that was their decision and not Hamilton’s through his contract as far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong though!

Both Hamilton and Alonso could have easily won the WDC back then. We can't really discuss their 'policy' from that time without also discussing the Ron Dennis - Lewis Hamilton relationship which will take us even further off-topic.

...

I just think it sounds weird for a rookie with no experience to be able to come in and dictate what the team should do in a situation where it is certain that said rookie cannot win the championship. That bargaining power would be strange to assign to someone who hasn’t proven themselves yet.

Not sure I understand your point. No one is dictating anything. That's the point. Both Piastri and Norris are going for it, the former more consistent but at times seems lower, the latter faster on his best days but with a tendency to ruin his own chances...

I think we all agree Mclaren is handling it poorly and that's the main issue.

[venkyhere]

I don't see the issue. McLaren has lost plenty of good results, e.g., a 1-2 in the 1989 Japanese Grand Prix. "That's motor racing."

McLaren have made their position clear. It's in Bruce McLaren's policies apparently! Hamilton was similarly a very poor wingman for team leader world champion Fernando Alonso.

Even if McLaren doesn't have this policy, Piastri likely has a contract that does not permit team orders against Piastri either at all or until Piastri is mathematically eliminated -- presumably Mark Webber insisted on that.

Then Mclaren is destined to be the TottenhamFC of modern era F1. The Tim Henman. The Buzz Aldrin.

[Hoffman900]

I don't see the issue. McLaren has lost plenty of good results, e.g., a 1-2 in the 1989 Japanese Grand Prix. "That's motor racing."

McLaren have made their position clear. It's in Bruce McLaren's policies apparently! Hamilton was similarly a very poor wingman for team leader world champion Fernando Alonso.

Even if McLaren doesn't have this policy, Piastri likely has a contract that does not permit team orders against Piastri either at all or until Piastri is mathematically eliminated -- presumably Mark Webber insisted on that.

Then Mclaren is destined to be the TottenhamFC of modern era F1. The Tim Henman. The Buzz Aldrin.

Mclaren is going to likely win the WCC.

I mean, WDC is nice for Mclaren, but, Mclaren is the manufacturer, their championship is the WCC. Even going back to Senna / Prost. They didn’t care who won, they just wanted a WCC.

F1 is first and foremost a constructors championship series. If it was a driver’s series, they’d have a rule set like Indy, NASCAR, F2, etc.

[Mattchu]

Grand Prix wins aren`t something that come easily, why are people getting upset because a racing driver went for a pass that could easily have won him the coveted top step of the podium! McLaren may not be the fastest car for long so you have to take any chance you can as a driver!

Didn`t probably the all time great state:

“If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you’re no longer a racing driver.”

McLaren would probably have ended up 2+3 anyway as I doubt they would have anticipated Leclerc doing the one-stop strategy.
I know it`s part of the sport but I despise team orders, you can have a word with the drivers so as not to be walloping into each other, but saying you can`t do this, he can`t do that, one always takes priority, just demeans the whole spectacle.
I really disliked the Hamilton/Bottas era as well as the Verstappen/Perez time, give me Prost/Senna, Hamilton/Rosberg, Prost/Mansell, Webber/Vettel, etc, any day of the week...Roll on Norris v Piastri, it`s great entertainment...

[Tvetovnato]

But that literally happened in 2007! If Hamilton would have played ball, Alonso would have been champion! And I'm glad he didn't, because what would have been his chances going into the 2008 championship if he hadnt given his all and set his mark in 2007!?

Its exactly the same with Piastri. The team is not favoring one over the other, even willing to sacrifice Norris' points for Piastri (Hungary), so it totally makes sense for him to give everything to beat his teammate (as if you need any reason as a racing driver...)

But it was a very different situation in 07. McLaren weren’t playing miracle catch-up as they are now. Hamilton led the championship from very early on, so if anyone should have been backed it could just as well have been him after half the season had passed. McLaren had their ”papaya” (or chrome?) policy back then as well, but that was their decision and not Hamilton’s through his contract as far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong though!

Both Hamilton and Alonso could have easily won the WDC back then. We can't really discuss their 'policy' from that time without also discussing the Ron Dennis - Lewis Hamilton relationship which will take us even further off-topic.

...

I just think it sounds weird for a rookie with no experience to be able to come in and dictate what the team should do in a situation where it is certain that said rookie cannot win the championship. That bargaining power would be strange to assign to someone who hasn’t proven themselves yet.

Not sure I understand your point. No one is dictating anything. That's the point. Both Piastri and Norris are going for it, the former more consistent but at times seems lower, the latter faster on his best days but with a tendency to ruin his own chances...

I think we all agree Mclaren is handling it poorly and that's the main issue.

I was simply responding to some takes that Piastri somehow would have in his contract that he cannot be subjected to team orders, which I highly doubt that McLaren would agree on when signing his contract.

[pipoloko]

Have you guys noticed how much faster the 2024 GP was compared to 2023 (if you equalize the laps)?
Norris' fastest lap dropped by 5 seconds, Verstappen's by 4 seconds, and Leclerc's by 2 seconds.
Those who have access to data and enjoy analyzing it might be able to explain what happened.
The total race, when equalized, was 1 minute and 40 seconds faster, or almost 2 seconds per lap on average.
Interesting, right?

[PlatinumZealot]

If Zack had any balls he should have put Piastri as clear number 2 the minute they discovered that the car is the fastest. These opportunities come once every other decade.

The car is fast there will be the odd win for Piastri if Norris screws up but for all the other 90% of the races they need to absolutely Maximise Norris points to Max.

[dialtone]

If Zack had any balls he should have put Piastri as clear number 2 the minute they discovered that the car is the fastest. These opportunities come once every other decade.

The car is fast there will be the odd win for Piastri if Norris screws up but for all the other 90% of the races they need to absolutely Maximise Norris points to Max.

No idea why people want to see Piastri die slowly inside…

You cannot get 2 good drivers and have them be 1 and 2. If you draft 2 good ones, and go through what they did for OP, it’s because you want 2 #1.

This isn’t Barrichello, Irvine, Bottas and company and Webber wasn’t really chill mentally after multi-21. I do not see why MCL should ruin the investment they did with OP, they will win WCC and if Norris is WDC material he will win that too, or he won’t because he won’t deserve it.

These are the 20 best drivers on the planet and somehow they need to be pampered to and helped in everything because they have trouble with a basically rookie team mate after 6 seasons in F1.

I would understand team orders to be ruthless, like Ferrari with Barrichello and Schumacher more than I would understand the ones to help a team mate beat the other because he can’t alone, and then in the same breath celebrate a WDC. Laughable.

[Vanja #66]

Have you guys noticed how much faster the 2024 GP was compared to 2023 (if you equalize the laps)?
Norris' fastest lap dropped by 5 seconds, Verstappen's by 4 seconds, and Leclerc's by 2 seconds.
Those who have access to data and enjoy analyzing it might be able to explain what happened.
The total race, when equalized, was 1 minute and 40 seconds faster, or almost 2 seconds per lap on average.
Interesting, right?

Fresh asphalt and faster cars yield better laps. Those with 2 stops had a massive improvement in lap time as everyone went to a regular 1 stop last year. The really crazy thing for me is 2024 race actually taking 1 minute longer than last year and neither race saw any incidents or SC periods. Is the warm-up lap taken into full race time?

[venkyhere]

Have you guys noticed how much faster the 2024 GP was compared to 2023 (if you equalize the laps)?
Norris' fastest lap dropped by 5 seconds, Verstappen's by 4 seconds, and Leclerc's by 2 seconds.
Those who have access to data and enjoy analyzing it might be able to explain what happened.
The total race, when equalized, was 1 minute and 40 seconds faster, or almost 2 seconds per lap on average.
Interesting, right?

Fresh asphalt and faster cars yield better laps. Those with 2 stops had a massive improvement in lap time as everyone went to a regular 1 stop last year. The really crazy thing for me is 2024 race actually taking 1 minute longer than last year and neither race saw any incidents or SC periods. Is the warm-up lap taken into full race time?

add : flattening of kerbs. Plays a big role in reducing laptime (gaining time in slow-zone => large shavings from laptime)

[Tommy.G]

Wow! Look at the laps! Always in the 1.23s!! Unbelievable race by Leclerc in a car that’s not even top…

[PlatinumZealot]

Nothing out of ther norm for an F1 driver.

[pipoloko]

2023 was a 51 laps intead of 53
that is why i did equalized comparasions

[GrizzleBoy]

Wow! Look at the laps! Always in the 1.23s!! Unbelievable race by Leclerc in a car that’s not even top…

I do wonder what kind of metronomic accuracy and trust/understanding/control you need to have of an F1 car to do THAT many laps, all within a coupke tenths.

I have no idea what it takes, whether you just drive to the cars capability and it evens out or whether every single little detail needs to be pin point, but im impressed either way.

[venkyhere]

Nothing out of ther norm for an F1 driver.

Probably if the name on that pic was "Hamilton" it would've been extraordinary wouldn't it ?
Mate, credit where credit's due.