2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[geogate]

LAndo needs to take the bull by the horns and go out and win the championship. He was the slower driver at Monza - he needs to fix that or he doesn't deserve to be world champion. I want both titles, but I want our driver to WIN it and be able to look back on it with pride

[PapayaFan481]

... This has all the hallmarks of bmw sauber 2008

For me it has all the hallmarks of 2007. Different dynamic, but fastest car doesn't win because 2 drivers take points off of each other allowing a slower car to win the WDC.

Or even 2009 where 1 team starts the season with a dominant car (Brawn), but others catch up, but the now fastest team (Red Bull) doesn't prioritise either driver and so allows Brawn to limp over the line for the title.

[damo46]

It's a lunge when you don't like the move, and last of the late breakers when you do.

Oscar was alongside before the corner so cannot really be classed as a lunge unless you are sore. I know several don't like that he did it, but it was a brilliant overtake who's opportunity was gifted to him by another mistake from Lando.

If that was anyone else getting past Lando then the focus would be absolutely on his choking and not on the driver politics.

Nice summary.

People sitting on there bums at home saying McLaren would have had a 1,2 finish if it wasn't for Oscar. I'm sorry but how do you know this? Did you see it happen somewhere in another dimension?

Ferrari won this by outsmarting McLaren, not because Oscar drove slow.

[FittingMechanics]

Check the team radio… they have asked Oscar if he thinks they can 1 stop and he said that his front left was dead. From a guy that was in free air.

They didn’t expect that after some time graining would disappear.

It's hard to find the exact quote where Piastri said it, but to me his interviews after the race sounded like he was aware of Lando stopping for a second time and that he was worried about him - not Leclerc (thinking everyone will two stop). Piastri also was doing same laptimes as Leclerc with 5 second buffer. His only threat of an undercut (if he stops again) was Norris. I feel that drivers often times tell what they want to happen. If Piastri wanted to stay out he would have said that the tires are bad but can go to the end.

Smart thing for the team to do would be to split strategies at that moment. It makes one stop less interesting to Ferrari as they don't have track position.

With the gap Oscar had right before he made his final stop, it has to be considered a strategy error. If Leclerc was 1,5 behind or catching him at 0,5 a lap or so, then it would make sense from what they could see at that point in time. But he had a stable gap of over 5 seconds. Waiting it out a few more laps was the right strategy.

Exactly. The gap was stable and Piastri was not under threat of another car undercutting him. So McLaren as a team has nothing to lose if Piastri stays out until his tires fall off. Only downside would be if you are absolutely certain that Piastri pitting early will get you 1-2 which I don't think anyone realistic could be sure of. They even had Norris out on track and could see laptimes he can do. It's not rocket science to extrapolate that and see that it is very hard to catch Leclerc unless his tires fall off completely.

[FittingMechanics]

Norris (and McLaren) lost the race with that oversteer moment in T2 on lap 1. This allowed Piastri to slipstream alongside and caused the whole chain of events.

There were many small things that happened that caused it, but initial mistake is there.

So it's another bad opening lap by Norris. I am happy that at least his launch was good so he will probably feel less pressure next time around (in Baku).

[Marc.W]

The only thing I'm not happy about with the Oscar move was that Lando made sure to give him a tow down to T1 and compromised his exit from T2 giving Oscar the run, IMO Lando was trying to play the team game to secure a 1-2, Oscar didn't care about the team game at all

[bluechris]

It's a lunge when you don't like the move, and last of the late breakers when you do.

Oscar was alongside before the corner so cannot really be classed as a lunge unless you are sore. I know several don't like that he did it, but it was a brilliant overtake who's opportunity was gifted to him by another mistake from Lando.

If that was anyone else getting past Lando then the focus would be absolutely on his choking and not on the driver politics.

Nice summary.

People sitting on there bums at home saying McLaren would have had a 1,2 finish if it wasn't for Oscar. I'm sorry but how do you know this? Did you see it happen somewhere in another dimension?

Ferrari won this by outsmarting McLaren, not because Oscar drove slow.

You are right but its common sense, after that move, Norris was third in the dirty air of Leclerc. This is the 1st problem, if the 2 MCLarens were 1st and 2nd they could had dictate the pace and the 2nd driver normally could control the distance from the 1st to be tyre happy. This wasn't possible for Norris behind Leclerc and pushed to stay behind and try to pass. The end result was that he didnt saved his tyres and this changed the overall team decisions. Also there was a huge 2nd mistake to pit Norris when he was ready to pass Leclerc. This error is also crucial because after that Leclerc could had the problem of dirty air and tyres overheating. Leclerc maybe would had pitted then to undercut Norris but his tyres will had more laps if the scenario for 1 pitstop was in the table for them but maybe the decision would had been different so early.
To me personally it was a total cluster.... and its all on the team and less to Piastri. If they havent discussed at all how they will race to lock the result then its not Piastri fault of what he did even if it is not logical from a team point of view to attack your teammate in the 4th corner of the race. Add the rest totally wrong decisions for pitting both drivers in the wrong time, especially Norris, you get what you get, but the catalyst to all was the pass.

I wait patiently LollipopMan to release his Monza video .. it will be epyc im certain

[venkyhere]

This "lap1 overtake by PIA on NOR" doesn't seem to find closure. The only thing that is getting discussed in F1 forums all over the internet !!!

The other thing all over the place, is "McLaren have poor tyre life" - I haven't seen a more ridiculous statement in recent times. McLaren is one of the best, when it comes to tyre life, in 2024. They went for the higher DF package (both front and rear) as well, when it came to Q from FP3. Ferrari, since the end of 2023 have always been gentle on tyres, they have suffered performance issues only - tyre life was never the problem for them anyway, in 2024.

What I am not reading about, in the internet, is "driving style influencing front graining". LeClerc was clever enough to restrain himself, but the McLaren drivers were naiive enough to burn them up. If not PIA, I expected NOR to be clever with his tyres, but alas he wasn't in this race, unlike the brilliance in this aspect that he has always shown. I am reading so many posts in this thread itself, where members are quoting team radio "left front is graining" as if that was a property of the car alone. It isn't !!! it also depends on the skill of the driver, how he takes care of the tyres. The McLaren had so much pace up it's sleeve, the drivers could've been cleverer with the usage of tyres. What's worse, the team just sat there, not warning them "enough" about the risk of not being gentle.

Instead of these real reasons why they lost the race, all people want to talk about is PIA overtaking NOR in lap1 and all the narratives about contracts and aggression and driver hierarchy etc etc.

About the overtake itself, what exactly happened ? NOR was too much inside the racing line towards the first chicane, and lost a lost of time rotating the car, even suffering an oversteer moment applying the throttle before the car was ready, at the exit of the chicane. This allowed PIA to get much closer behind than ideal. Then, through the 'large right hand curve' (can't recall the names) all the way until the 2nd chicane (the "crime scene") , NOR defended stupidly, by hugging the inside line to the chicane (predicting that PIA would divebomb on the inside and make him miss the chicane and force him to take the escape route). What he should have done, is to put the car in the 'middle' of the inside and outside lines to the chicane (how many lap1 defenses have we seen from HAM, VER, LEC and RUS like this, where they occupy the 'uncomfortable-for-the-guy-behind' line, causing indecision in his mind) .

The commentators called it 'overtake of the season' etc - it was just a regulation opportunistic move, which looked really brave, because it was into a chicane and not a regular corner. It was more of a mistake by the guy defending his position, rather than anything great by the guy trying to gain a position. We have to call a spade a spade. It was poor from NOR, it was 'good job' from PIA. It wasn't 'spectacular move' from PIA. And what's more, it really didn't do anything to the outcome of the race, people are giving more importance to it than it deserves. When NOR decided to blink first and pit from his 'not destroyed yet' M, LEC was less than 1s ahead, PIA was 3s ahead. Sorry, but that is not a gap that I would call "race lost already" on a track with plenty of straights and DRS opportunities. Not by a long shot.

In my opinion, this much discussed 'overtake' had no relevance to the race. What was relevant was 'how the fresh H stint by both Mclaren drivers, prematurely took life out of their tyres and killed the opportunity for a 1 stop'.

[geogate]

I wouldnt say it was outsmarting as Mclaren knew Ferrari would try to one stop. At the end of the day, Ferrari found themselves in a position where they had absolutely nothing to lose by taking the "gamble", so it wasn't a gamble at all. What they did do was pulled it off, so kudos to them, they won, deservedly so.
Id still far rather have a Mclaren for the remaining races than a Ferrari

[mwillems]

A nice summary that echos my sentiments almost in entirety.

• Overtake had no negative bearing on the race outcome
• Having the faster Mclaren as the lead car improved the chances of a Mclaren win
• Strategy won against the faster cars
• Norris lost himself the race at T2
• 1-2 Would have been locked down if Norris was told not to race Piastri when it was clear early on he didn’t have the pace, he was not going to get Piastri and killed his tyres in vanity

If it was the other way round, Oscar for sure would have been told to manage his tyres and the car behind. Norris was allowed to kill his and McLaren's race to chase a ghost.


https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/did- ... a-verdict/

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Now that McLaren is thinking about prioritizing Lando, it would be hilarious if Oscar would find amazing pace for the rest of the season and would take a bunch of wins mean while Lando wouldn't be in P2 and they couldn't change positions.

[E8404424]

A nice summary that echos my sentiments almost in entirety.

• Overtake had no negative bearing on the race outcome
• Having the faster Mclaren as the lead car improved the chances of a Mclaren win
• Strategy won against the faster cars
• Norris lost himself the race at T2
• 1-2 Would have been locked down if Norris was told not to race Piastri when it was clear early on he didn’t have the pace, he was not going to get Piastri and killed his tyres in vanity

If it was the other way round, Oscar for sure would have been told to manage his tyres and the car behind. Norris was allowed to kill his and McLaren's race to chase a ghost.


https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/did- ... a-verdict/

An article that basically blames everyone except Oscar. How convienent.

So basically Oscar didn't win because those behind him made him ruin his tyres, and where have we seen that before, but isn't that part of racing ? .. Imagine having to deal with the pressure of other cars, including your team mate after you have passed him, daring to try to catch and pass you in a Grand Prix. The very thought. You know Webber should have that in his contract, Lando cannot race Oscar in case it makes Oscars tyres go all hurty.

Lando isn't responsible for how Oscars car is driven. Oscar is. Oscar almost took both cars out himself on lap one just to prove a point, he was clearly faster, he would have passed Lando anyway. No need for risk there. It was a great move, no doubt about that, but it let LeClerc through into second. How did that help either of them ?? .. Lando in second would have helped Oscar a lot more than Charles being there if he did nothing else but hold him up for a few seconds, that would have made all the difference at the end. What's the excuse for Oscar in Zandvoort then and his inability to match his team mate ??

The hype around Oscar is baffling. He is getting soundly beaten by his team mate on everything but apparently because he is ahead on lap one most of the time it just makes him better. It's the last lap that counts. On race finishes he is 10-6 down to Lando so maybe he should think about where he finishes a bit more. He's in his second season but cannot get close to even matching his team mate, let alone beating him. In his second year Lando and Carlos were 97-105 on points, 9-8 on both qualifying and race finishes and they had a podium each. Oscar is 14-2 down in qualifying, 10-6 in races, 10-5 in podiums, 4-0 in poles and 2-1 in race wins. And he had to be let through for that one. If he is going to pull a Lando in his second season he needs to start matching the hype.

That "potential" everyone seems to say he has needs to turn up next season because Lando isn't getting any slower.

[mwillems]

A nice summary that echos my sentiments almost in entirety.

• Overtake had no negative bearing on the race outcome
• Having the faster Mclaren as the lead car improved the chances of a Mclaren win
• Strategy won against the faster cars
• Norris lost himself the race at T2
• 1-2 Would have been locked down if Norris was told not to race Piastri when it was clear early on he didn’t have the pace, he was not going to get Piastri and killed his tyres in vanity

If it was the other way round, Oscar for sure would have been told to manage his tyres and the car behind. Norris was allowed to kill his and McLaren's race to chase a ghost.


https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/did- ... a-verdict/

An article that basically blames everyone except Oscar. How convienent.

So basically Oscar didn't win because those behind him made him ruin his tyres, and where have we seen that before, but isn't that part of racing ? .. Imagine having to deal with the pressure of other cars, including your team mate after you have passed him, daring to try to catch and pass you in a Grand Prix. The very thought. You know Webber should have that in his contract, Lando cannot race Oscar in case it makes Oscars tyres go all hurty.

Lando isn't responsible for how Oscars car is driven. Oscar is. Oscar almost took both cars out himself on lap one just to prove a point, he was clearly faster, he would have passed Lando anyway. No need for risk there. It was a great move, no doubt about that, but it let LeClerc through into second. How did that help either of them ?? .. Lando in second would have helped Oscar a lot more than Charles being there if he did nothing else but hold him up for a few seconds, that would have made all the difference at the end. What's the excuse for Oscar in Zandvoort then and his inability to match his team mate ??

The hype around Oscar is baffling. He is getting soundly beaten by his team mate on everything but apparently because he is ahead on lap one most of the time it just makes him better. It's the last lap that counts. On race finishes he is 10-6 down to Lando so maybe he should think about where he finishes a bit more. He's in his second season but cannot get close to even matching his team mate, let alone beating him. In his second year Lando and Carlos were 97-105 on points, 9-8 on both qualifying and race finishes and they had a podium each. Oscar is 14-2 down in qualifying, 10-6 in races, 10-5 in podiums, 4-0 in poles and 2-1 in race wins. And he had to be let through for that one. If he is going to pull a Lando in his second season he needs to start matching the hype.

That "potential" everyone seems to say he has needs to turn up next season because Lando isn't getting any slower.

It doesn't blame Oscar because there is no blame, he fought within the rules he was given, as the team and Lando have said. The full quotes from Lando makes clear that he thinks Oscar did nothing wrong and raced fairly and within the rules given by the team.

it beggars belief that a fan could be upset that he did everything he was asked of him apart from following the opinion of a section of fans, and not following the instruction of Stella that was agreed with Lando.

[FW17]

Commentators comments echo 2010 championship when they all banded together in campaign for RedBull and Vettel to support Weber.

[FittingMechanics]

A nice summary that echos my sentiments almost in entirety.

• Overtake had no negative bearing on the race outcome
• Having the faster Mclaren as the lead car improved the chances of a Mclaren win
• Strategy won against the faster cars
• Norris lost himself the race at T2
• 1-2 Would have been locked down if Norris was told not to race Piastri when it was clear early on he didn’t have the pace, he was not going to get Piastri and killed his tyres in vanity

If it was the other way round, Oscar for sure would have been told to manage his tyres and the car behind. Norris was allowed to kill his and McLaren's race to chase a ghost.


https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/did- ... a-verdict/

You left out part where they say that Piastri pitted second time to cover of Norris second pitstop (stupid idea as they are teammates).

Not sure we can be confident that faster McLaren was the lead car. Clean air is king and Norris had to run in dirty air throughout the race. In the final stint he even had to fight through Verstappen and Sainz with older tires yet he kept a small gap to Piastri. I am willing to bet that if Norris stayed in the lead we would say he was the faster McLaren because he would have clean air. Kind of like Piastri was no where in Zaandvoort where Norris managed to clear Verstappen and run away in clean air.

I also cannot accept the idea that the T4 overtake had no negative bearing on the race outcome. Without Lando losing a position to Leclerc (let's ignore Piastri overtaking him), McLaren drivers are 1-2 and they extend the gap to Leclerc (as Piastri was able to do). This means that Leclerc cannot undercut McLaren as the gap is too big for it to work. This means that they don't stop early and that one stop race is much more obvious choice. This probably means that McLaren stick to one stop and get 1-2. With Leclerc finishing 2 seconds ahead how can anyone realistic say that getting in front of Norris did not affect the race?

I think we need to be honest to ourselves. The team (and drivers) screwed this up. This was not a Ferrari masterpiece, it was a race almost given to them by the McLaren drivers fighting each other, burning their tires and then ignoring strategic consequences of covering off Norris by Piastri.