2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Chuckjr]

When the team get's it wrong. Teams fault.
When the team get's it right. 300 race Driver feedback bro.

Exactly.

[cplchanb]

Hamilton:

In the end, however, we needed a better balance with the car to achieve much more."

https://formu1a.uno/it/allarme-mercedes ... ta-estiva/

The new floor screwed up the balance which also increased tire wear.

As with all updates there is a risk it'll take a couple races to fine tune. They had no time to check any issues last race and this race is completely different. Expect to see a clearer picture for next race

[AR3-GP]

Hamilton:

In the end, however, we needed a better balance with the car to achieve much more."

https://formu1a.uno/it/allarme-mercedes ... ta-estiva/

The new floor screwed up the balance which also increased tire wear.

As with all updates there is a risk it'll take a couple races to fine tune. They had no time to check any issues last race and this race is completely different. Expect to see a clearer picture for next race

It's been 3 weekends. Spa free practice, Zandvoort (not in the fight), Monza (not in the fight).

When Merc's upgrades actually work, you see the improvement right away.

[Vanja #66]

It's been 3 weekends. Spa free practice, Zandvoort (not in the fight), Monza (not in the fight).

When Merc's upgrades actually work, you see the improvement right away.

They "have not swallowed a dumb pill" but Hungary and last two races demonstrate that W15 needs a cold and overcast/rainy race to shine. Who knows, maybe Spa upgrades would have worked well if Zandvoort race was a mixed one like last year

[PlatinumZealot]

Ferrari, Haas and Mclaren were the only ones with good balance in the race.. And mclaren at the expense of tyre wear (or was it pace that caused that?)....

Not too bad, for a one-off track, just goes to show that Merc's tools are not yet at the level where they are able to find the same quality of results when they approach the outer boundaries of the lowest downforce setups.

[Mosin123]

When the team get's it wrong. Teams fault.
When the team get's it right. 300 race Driver feedback bro.

No one actually said that.. Just that driver feedback is important. if you want to keep arguing that fact, thats up to you, but like, Neway, yes Adrian Neway, say human feedback is vital. like a dude in motor racing for 40 + years says its vital, you say its not, Like i cant just brush off Neways opinion, the Man is an f1 legend on designing and building cars, his understanding of all area's of an f1 car is unequalled.

In a sport where teams chase 0.001's of a sec in performance. you think driver feedback and finding the sweet spot and setting up a car is irrelvent, and how driver feed back doesnt factor into development plans because its all irrelevent.

You should become a team principle, you would save loads of hours and funds removing all of that pointless testing, the reserve drivers and all that, like its irrelevent.. Stupid team priciples wasting all that money for all these years when it doesnt matter. bloody barmy the lot of them, you should have words with Neway too, he obviously doesnt know any thing compared to you.

[PlatinumZealot]

It is similar to the plants that i have worked in. Some operators give you extremely detailed and valuable feedback and are willing to participate in experiments. It's as simple as that.

[Vanja #66]

Ferrari, Haas and Mclaren were the only ones with good balance in the race.. And mclaren at the expense of tyre wear (or was it pace that caused that?)....

I'd really like to know why McLaren abandoned their plans to use Monza wing in Monza. The only clue I found was comparing Parabolica between Norris and Leclerc in FP1 on Softs, Norris was -8kmh there and blew the entire 0.15s advantage built up until then. However, he was only marginally quicker on straights (overall) compared to Piastri (who in FP1 was as quick as Norris in Q3 on main straight) and Piastri also had a moment in Ascari and Parabolica on his FP1 lap. Weird results in single FP running of that spec

In any case, having more downforce and drag in Monza means you simply have to use your wings in corners, which will always cost you tire life unless you have a big margin, like RB19 did. If you don't, you'll get eaten on straights ans this is how McLaren defended from Leclerc for a while. This strategy forced McLaren to a 2-stop, while Leclerc managed his tyres in Lesmo 2, Ascari and Parabolica to extend his Hards. Like McLaren, same downforce/drag specification was the case for Mercedes and RB compared to Ferrari.

[Dunlay]

When the team get's it wrong. Teams fault.
When the team get's it right. 300 race Driver feedback bro.

No one actually said that.. Just that driver feedback is important. if you want to keep arguing that fact, thats up to you, but like, Neway, yes Adrian Neway, say human feedback is vital. like a dude in motor racing for 40 + years says its vital, you say its not, Like i cant just brush off Neways opinion, the Man is an f1 legend on designing and building cars, his understanding of all area's of an f1 car is unequalled.

In a sport where teams chase 0.001's of a sec in performance. you think driver feedback and finding the sweet spot and setting up a car is irrelvent, and how driver feed back doesnt factor into development plans because its all irrelevent.

You should become a team principle, you would save loads of hours and funds removing all of that pointless testing, the reserve drivers and all that, like its irrelevent.. Stupid team priciples wasting all that money for all these years when it doesnt matter. bloody barmy the lot of them, you should have words with Neway too, he obviously doesnt know any thing compared to you.

The point is, Mercedes is struggling for 3 years now despite the feedback of the guy with 300+ races. Someone said, Mercedes would be lost if he leaves. It can't any worse than where they were in 2022. But that's not going to happen. That's where the point becomes relevant that if everything works, it's because of the guy with 300+ races, if it doesn't, "they don't listen to me".

[PlatinumZealot]

So are you saying the Mercedes car did not improve year on year? Mercede still struggling with three wins in the last what? 7 races? The lead driver was fighting for 2nd in the championship last year?

The W15 started poorly due to change of concept and after experiments by a certain driver became a race winner.

Hehe. Sounds like revisionism.

[Dunlay]

So are you saying the Mercedes car did not improve year on year? Mercede still struggling with three wins in the last what? 7 races? The lead driver was fighting for 2nd in the championship last year?

The W15 started poorly due to change of concept and after experiments by a certain driver became a race winner.

Hehe. Sounds like revisionism.

As many team personnel confirmed, it was both drivers that were running experiments. A certain driver's downbeat behaviour, throwing team under the bus in public and accusing of sabotage are not great examples of leading the team. Toto had to call the police to contain a certain situation. Despite that, team made progress. So credit to those engineers and the other driver that kept their head down and worked wonders. Besides, I don't understand how a driver that is not part of any closed dioor meeting, as ge is leaving the team, could help the matters of car development.

[Luscion]

So are you saying the Mercedes car did not improve year on year? Mercede still struggling with three wins in the last what? 7 races? The lead driver was fighting for 2nd in the championship last year?

The W15 started poorly due to change of concept and after experiments by a certain driver became a race winner.

Hehe. Sounds like revisionism.

As many team personnel confirmed, it was both drivers that were running experiments. A certain driver's downbeat behaviour, throwing team under the bus in public and accusing of sabotage are not great examples of leading the team. Toto had to call the police to contain a certain situation. Despite that, team made progress. So credit to those engineers and the other driver that kept their head down and worked wonders. Besides, I don't understand how a driver that is not part of any closed dioor meeting, as ge is leaving the team, could help the matters of car development.

Not sure when Lewis ever said the team was sabotaging him, he said he didnt expect to beat Russell in quali for the rest of the year and his fans ran with it, the very next weekend he shut down that talk. As of two months ago when asked, he was still involved in meetings as normal and hadnt been left out of anything

https://racingnews365.com/hamilton-faci ... exit-looms

[Quantum]

So are you saying the Mercedes car did not improve year on year? Mercede still struggling with three wins in the last what? 7 races? The lead driver was fighting for 2nd in the championship last year?

The W15 started poorly due to change of concept and after experiments by a certain driver became a race winner.

Hehe. Sounds like revisionism.

As many team personnel confirmed, it was both drivers that were running experiments. A certain driver's downbeat behaviour, throwing team under the bus in public and accusing of sabotage are not great examples of leading the team. Toto had to call the police to contain a certain situation. Despite that, team made progress. So credit to those engineers and the other driver that kept their head down and worked wonders. Besides, I don't understand how a driver that is not part of any closed dioor meeting, as ge is leaving the team, could help the matters of car development.

Not sure when Lewis ever said the team was sabotaging him, he said he didnt expect to beat Russell in quali for the rest of the year and his fans ran with it, the very next weekend he shut down that talk. As of two months ago when asked, he was still involved in meetings as normal and hadnt been left out of anything

https://racingnews365.com/hamilton-faci ... exit-looms

George has the new update.
There's 2 tenths I know I wont be able to make up.
I don't anticipate being ahead of George in qualifying this year.

[Quantum]

So are you saying the Mercedes car did not improve year on year? Mercede still struggling with three wins in the last what? 7 races? The lead driver was fighting for 2nd in the championship last year?

The W15 started poorly due to change of concept and after experiments by a certain driver became a race winner.

Hehe. Sounds like revisionism.

The tail wags the dog?

I can give you feedback on my M240i. Driver feedback is the back end of the circuit-loop, along with track data and lap times.
Mercedes did not change the W15 because of Hamilton's experiments. Because they weren't Hamilton experiments. The team runs the experiments and the programmes. Not Hamilton.
The car had updates/plans in the works before that ever happened. The engineers can see from track data relative the competition where the car is slow/fast.
Assuming so much responsibility on driver feedback, and specifically Hamilton's driver feedback is mythical fantasy. I think Lewis is awesome, the best driver of his generation, but you cannot credit him with turning the W15 around because "experiments". "This feels better guys"....great lets credit Lewis for that. Cmon, this aint Twitter.

Those experiments (which George also conducted this year), are a process of development in curing aspects of the car that come up in data. Top speed for example. Apex speed. Acceleration out of corners. Braking.
Would you credit Alonso for saying the Honda engine was GP2 level and then became the equal to Merc and Ferrari for example?

It really is just the baseline communication that drivers need to have at this level.
A driver will give you his opinion on the feel, and where he can dial in more downforce to optimise his set up(more wing/less wing), brake bias etc etc, but every single driver in F1 can do that. Teams will come up with development solutions based on data, these will then be put on the car and tested(experimenting) with drivers providing feedback on what has been developed. It's a prerequisite of the sport.


Someone mentioned Verstappen earlier and his relationship with Newey. If Verstappens feedback was behind the RB 18/19 well, it would be behind the 20 too and that has fallen of a cliff.
What has actually happened is Newey no longer works on the car and hasn't for some time.
The back end of the loop remains the same but the input isn't. Verstappen is still feeding back consistently but the results are wildly different now. That remains the case with every driver, and it is no different to Hamilton with a small degree of variance for everyone. Lets move on from Idolatry and just see the realties.

[Luscion]

As many team personnel confirmed, it was both drivers that were running experiments. A certain driver's downbeat behaviour, throwing team under the bus in public and accusing of sabotage are not great examples of leading the team. Toto had to call the police to contain a certain situation. Despite that, team made progress. So credit to those engineers and the other driver that kept their head down and worked wonders. Besides, I don't understand how a driver that is not part of any closed dioor meeting, as ge is leaving the team, could help the matters of car development.

Not sure when Lewis ever said the team was sabotaging him, he said he didnt expect to beat Russell in quali for the rest of the year and his fans ran with it, the very next weekend he shut down that talk. As of two months ago when asked, he was still involved in meetings as normal and hadnt been left out of anything

https://racingnews365.com/hamilton-faci ... exit-looms

George has the new update.
There's 2 tenths I know I wont be able to make up.
I don't anticipate being ahead of George in qualifying this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtTD998oVWM

Lewis saying he think he's down 2 tenths because of a new wing is him saying Merc is sabotaging him?