2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

It's long-arched corners where Ferrari faced problems these 2 seasons and, of the remaining 8 races, only Qatar has those in abundance. I'd argue Baku and Singapore are quite relevant for the rest of the season. If they can match and fight McLaren in both those tracks, they will be fighting for podiums everywhere else too

I don't understand what you are saying, but COTA is absolutely a test for the new update package. The old car would not have suited that circuit. The old car would have suited Baku and Singapore regardless just as it suited Monaco and just as the SF23 suited those tracks (Baku/Singapore).

If you are arguing that 90 degree corner street tracks would prepare them to battle for podiums, then they should have fought for podiums after Monaco. You know this. Stop just trying to disagree with me.

I honestly don't know what's not to understand. Of 8 remaining tracks, Ferrari had issues only in Qatar last year. Even when Baku was early on and peaky SF23A was still used, Leclerc was competitive vs Alonso. Their floor works differently to other top 4 cars and after the floor edge rule changes of last year, they struggle with long-radius corners. Only Qatar has lots of them in the final 8 races.

The post spanish GP car bounced in high speed corners.

The new floor is a correction for that package so COTA is a test.

[scuderiabrandon]

The only concerns I have going to the next 2 circuits, where I expect an SF-24 to be at a similar level of competitiveness as in Monza, is the qualifying performance of the car. It seems very likely at the moment that a Mercedes can always sneak in ahead of us, which is such a headache. One, dirty air seems to be back at its worst, so passing without a tyre delta is quite difficult. Singapore doesn't need an explanation, qualifying is everything.


But I generally share the belief that the next 2 races are probably the 2 most important races for us in a really long time. Both need to be absolutely maximized with no crumbs left if we're expecting to mount a title challenge (wcc).

[bluechris]

The only concerns I have going to the next 2 circuits, where I expect an SF-24 to be at a similar level of competitiveness as in Monza, is the qualifying performance of the car. It seems very likely at the moment that a Mercedes can always sneak in ahead of us, which is such a headache. One, dirty air seems to be back at its worst, so passing without a tyre delta is quite difficult. Singapore doesn't need an explanation, qualifying is everything.

True but as we saw in Monza with Leclerc so many laps behind anyone without a single problem, where McLaren destroyed their tyres, so i don't think this is a problem. Qual problem or not i strongly believe the setup atm is ok and they must not alter anything fundamental. The car with better tyre preservation will go in front of the others i think.
Also the next tracks are not so flat like Monza and all the others will have bigger problems than Ferrari because they will raise their cars.

[Vanja #66]

The post spanish GP car bounced in high speed corners...stop this

The new floor is a correction for that package. That Spanish GP car would have been awful at COTA, so yes, COTA is a test.

Hungary floor was a corrective floor that massively reduced bouncing and thus reduced overall downforce levels. You still need downforce in short-radius corners and if you are missing it you will not be competitive.

Austria was an example of a track where spanish-spec car should have been better than elsewhere, but it wasn't. Nothing supports an expectation that spanish-spec car would have been very competitive in Baku and Singapore, as the relevant data is limited to one single track

[scuderiabrandon]

The only concerns I have going to the next 2 circuits, where I expect an SF-24 to be at a similar level of competitiveness as in Monza, is the qualifying performance of the car. It seems very likely at the moment that a Mercedes can always sneak in ahead of us, which is such a headache. One, dirty air seems to be back at its worst, so passing without a tyre delta is quite difficult. Singapore doesn't need an explanation, qualifying is everything.

True but as we saw in Monza with Leclerc so many laps behind anyone without a single problem, where McLaren destroyed their tyres, so i don't think this is a problem. Qual problem or not i strongly believe the setup atm is ok and they must not alter anything fundamental. The car with better tyre preservation will go in front of the others i think.
Also the next tracks are not so flat like Monza and all the others will have bigger problems than Ferrari because they will raise their cars.

The issue here is with how close it is, the delta to overtake is massive. Unless the car ahead is ridiculously bad on tyres, they can keep you behind. Which is not the case any more, I believe.

The car with better tyre preservation will go in front of the others i think.

Although I am incredibly proud of how we managed the Monza race, we have to remember Mclaren basically put it in our hands by not really being convinced by a one-stop whatsoever. They seemed to have planned a two stop from the start of the race and only 2/3rds into the race, after cooking their 2nd stint tyres realized mmmm maybe a one-stop could've worked. By then, they already put themselves on the back foot.

[AR3-GP]

The post spanish GP car bounced in high speed corners...stop this

The new floor is a correction for that package. That Spanish GP car would have been awful at COTA, so yes, COTA is a test.

Hungary floor was a corrective floor that massively reduced bouncing and thus reduced overall downforce levels.

Wasn't that the floor that Leclerc immediately crashed in free practice in the high speed turn 4 at Hungary? I never blamed Leclerc for that since I assumed it was the floor bouncing that caused him to lose control, like in Austria qualy.

[scuderiabrandon]

The post spanish GP car bounced in high speed corners...stop this

The new floor is a correction for that package. That Spanish GP car would have been awful at COTA, so yes, COTA is a test.

Hungary floor was a corrective floor that massively reduced bouncing and thus reduced overall downforce levels.

Wasn't that the floor that Leclerc immediately crashed in free practice in the high speed turn 4 at Hungary? I never blamed Leclerc for that since I assumed it was the floor bouncing that caused him to lose control, like in Austria qualy.

That did not seem like a crash induced by bouncing. Carried a bit too much apex speed, lost the rear, corrected the steering which washed him wide onto the kerb, bottomed out which initiated the spin.

IIRC Leclerc's own words after the Austria qualifying was "I tried too much"

However, I don't think the bouncing issue was absolutely resolved with that correction package. I believe Carlos complained about it even during a wet Spa qualifying session.

[Vanja #66]

Wasn't that the floor that Leclerc immediately crashed in free practice in the high speed turn 4 at Hungary? I never blamed Leclerc for that since I assumed it was the floor bouncing that caused him to lose control, like in Austria qualy.

What's that got to do with original discussion?

[AR3-GP]

Wasn't that the floor that Leclerc immediately crashed in free practice in the high speed turn 4 at Hungary? I never blamed Leclerc for that since I assumed it was the floor bouncing that caused him to lose control, like in Austria qualy.

What's that got to do with original discussion?

I said that COTA was a test to see if they fixed the high speed bouncing. You disputed this by saying that they solved that in Hungary. I disputed that with this point and think it remains to be seen how well the update works to fix bouncing. As Leclerc already pointed out, bouncing wouldn't be exposed on a low downforce track like Monza.

Baku and Singapore would have always suited this car and besides that, Leclerc always did well no matter how bad the car was at these tracks. COTA will be the real test (you disputed this and say it is only Qatar).

[Vanja #66]

I said that COTA was a test to see if they fixed the high speed bouncing. You disputed this by saying that they solved that in Hungary. I disputed that with this point.

That point is moot, as my argument is that we have no reason to believe spain- or hungary-spec car would have been comptetive vs McLaren (and Red Bull, for that matter) in Baku and Singapore in the first place. Bouncing is less of an issue, car lacked usable downforce anyway.

[AR3-GP]

That point is moot, as my argument is that we have no reason to believe spain- or hungary-spec car would have been comptetive vs McLaren (and Red Bull, for that matter) in Baku and Singapore in the first place.

We have no reason to believe they could challenge Mclaren there? Leclerc won the last street track! He has also regularly piloted rubbish to good results in these tracks.

and now you're saying we have no reason to believe Ferrari could challenge even Red Bull in these tracks? I would welcome such an outcome...but we both know Red Bull will suffer there.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.

[Vanja #66]

We have no reason to believe they could challenge Mclaren there? Leclerc won the last street track! He has also regularly piloted rubbish to good results in these tracks.

and now you're saying we have no reason to believe Ferrari could challenge Red Bull in these tracks?

Mate, come on... Monaco was won on Imola package, not Spanish. Driving the wheels of SF23A in Q in Baku proved to be totally useless in the race. Sainz' Singapore 23 win was 100% won in Q3, where SF24 does not shine one bit.

If Ferrari can fight McLaren for the win in next two races, they will be competitive for podium places in remaining tracks, that was my point. I think I should have phrased that bit more clearly in the first place. Well look at that, I actually did phrase it perfectly

[AR3-GP]

If Ferrari can fight McLaren for the win in next two races, they will be competitive for podium places in remaining tracks, that was my point. I think I should have phrased that bit more clearly in the first place

My point is that I disagree with that! fundamentally!

Baku and Singapore are never good predictors of anything. Red Bull was rubbish in Singapore last year. Baku is a street track! Perez won last year...

If Ferrari can challenge Mclaren in COTA, then the WCC is on and Leclerc might even beat Norris in the WDC. I am already taking for granted that Ferrari will be good in Singapore and Baku because they always have been, no matter the car.

[Vanja #66]

and my point is that I disagree with that!

Baku and Singapore are never good predictors of anything. Red Bull was rubbish in Singapore last year. Baku is a street track! Perez won last year...

If Ferrari can challenge Mclaren in COTA, then the WCC is on and Leclerc might even beat Norris in the WDC.

Agree to disagree then

Not sure who mentioned title fight anyway, leaders in both categories are too far away and closest pretenders are too strong at the moment. Ferrari are taking things race by race and focused on learning as much as possible for next year.

Any sniff of title fight was gone with spanish update and WDC fight was never even the target. WCC fight (not necessarily title) was target and even with all the summer trouble they are still there. Very strong performance from the team, without having the best car overall at any point

[AR3-GP]

and my point is that I disagree with that!

Baku and Singapore are never good predictors of anything. Red Bull was rubbish in Singapore last year. Baku is a street track! Perez won last year...

If Ferrari can challenge Mclaren in COTA, then the WCC is on and Leclerc might even beat Norris in the WDC.

Agree to disagree then

Not sure who mentioned title fight anyway, leaders in both categories are too far away and closest pretenders are too strong at the moment. Ferrari are taking things race by race and focused on learning as much as possible for next year.

Any sniff of title fight was gone with spanish update and WDC fight was never even the target. WCC fight (not necessarily title) was target and even with all the summer trouble they are still there. Very strong performance from the team, without having the best car overall at any point

I never mentioned WDC title. I mentioned beating Norris. These are two different things. Leclerc is only 18 points behind him.

I also said WCC title is on if car is still competitive in COTA.