2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[TeamKoolGreen]

Should Red Bull agree to reduce Newey's gardening leave so that Aston can take points from McLaren

[Watto]

If you simply want to get lost in statistics, that then that's your reality. If you want to look beneath and see what were the reasons for Piastri finishing ahead of Norris then you will understand it's because of Norris making 1st lap mistakes that is putting him behind not just Piastri, but also other drivers. It's like Nico vs Lewis in 2016. That doesn't mean Piastri is on some kind of ascension. Despite his mistake in Zandvoort, when Lando was just behind Max, he made the most out of it while Piastri was stuck behind Leclerc. So it's about Lando making a mistake AND Piastri jumping him AND Lando getting stuck behind other cars that can make Piastri look good in the battle. Is that going to happen every race? Let's see.

Nonsense, Piastri has been the faster driver at Hungary, Spa & Monza. One could argue Lando was quicker in 1 stint @ Hungary but even then that was 3 seconds over 21 laps.

This isn't even getting in to the racing lessons Piastri has been handing out to him lately.

Oscar will be this seasons Minister of defence for Max.

Other than a fan perspective, I don't see any sense here. No data, no debate. There should be data backed for argument, otherwise it's just stale argument.

Aren't you a little guilty of this though a bit of confirmation bias towards Lando? Was a few weeks ago you defended Lando when Max overtook him - its not Lando its that car that is poor off the line/starting. But going back over quite a few recent races Oscar has been pretty decent off the line better than Lando, making up places within the first lap.

Was a race before the summer break that Lando, relied on pit stratagies, I recall was struggling to overtake anyone while Oscar seemed to be going it with ease.


Netherlands Oscar was way off Landos pace.

I'm not getting into who is better as I think they both have their pros and cons over all. Lando I think is far better over a lap/quali. Over a race I think both sides can be very very selective on what they want to read. Oscar points to recent races etc. You've pointed out some of Landos's strengths too.

[venkyhere]

Isn't it normal for a dominant team to overlook some flaws in their design, because they are supremely dominant over two seasons ? I think it is, because nothing succeeds like success, and reinforces confidence in a positive feedback loop, orienting the mind into confirmation bias, disallowing the mind to even register a glaringly obvious flaw.

Look what happened to Mercedes coming off the 2014-2021 era, into the ground effects era - they refused to accept that there was a fundamental mistake with their starting concept, for a season and a half.

The fact that Redbull find themselves in this downward spiral is nothing out of the ordinary, IMHO. Look at all the well placed teams of 2024 - McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari -> they all struggled a lot, atleast for a season and a half, until they came alive this season. So it's not that Redbull are idiots and others are the smarter ones. This happens. The question is, how soon do they 'root cause'. And then how soon do they 'come up with the solution'. And then how soon 'they make the solution work on track'. I hope it doesn't take as long as the others, and 2025 begins well.

[Bill]

Isn't it normal for a dominant team to overlook some flaws in their design, because they are supremely dominant over two seasons ? I think it is, because nothing succeeds like success, and reinforces confidence in a positive feedback loop, orienting the mind into confirmation bias, disallowing the mind to even register a glaringly obvious flaw.

Look what happened to Mercedes coming off the 2014-2021 era, into the ground effects era - they refused to accept that there was a fundamental mistake with their starting concept, for a season and a half.

The fact that Redbull find themselves in this downward spiral is nothing out of the ordinary, IMHO. Look at all the well placed teams of 2024 - McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari -> they all struggled a lot, atleast for a season and a half, until they came alive this season. So it's not that Redbull are idiots and others are the smarter ones. This happens. The question is, how soon do they 'root cause'. And then how soon do they 'come up with the solution'. And then how soon 'they make the solution work on track'. I hope it doesn't take as long as the others, and 2025 begins well.

every car on the grid is a redbull copy so they is nothing to suggest redbull are missing something.redbull adopted some of merc design solution so they were no resting on there laurels. The only thing redbull needed to do was address handling issues on perez car, he says he has been complaining of issues from day 1.max is having the same issues only recently so the only conclusion you can come up with is the two cars when never the same .perez was at time over a secound slower than max but on last race they were about equal. The latest tech directive on brake system looks to have affected redbull.

[Emag]

Isn't it normal for a dominant team to overlook some flaws in their design, because they are supremely dominant over two seasons ? I think it is, because nothing succeeds like success, and reinforces confidence in a positive feedback loop, orienting the mind into confirmation bias, disallowing the mind to even register a glaringly obvious flaw.

Look what happened to Mercedes coming off the 2014-2021 era, into the ground effects era - they refused to accept that there was a fundamental mistake with their starting concept, for a season and a half.

The fact that Redbull find themselves in this downward spiral is nothing out of the ordinary, IMHO. Look at all the well placed teams of 2024 - McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari -> they all struggled a lot, atleast for a season and a half, until they came alive this season. So it's not that Redbull are idiots and others are the smarter ones. This happens. The question is, how soon do they 'root cause'. And then how soon do they 'come up with the solution'. And then how soon 'they make the solution work on track'. I hope it doesn't take as long as the others, and 2025 begins well.

every car on the grid is a redbull copy so they is nothing to suggest redbull are missing something.redbull adopted some of merc design solution so they were no resting on there laurels. The only thing redbull needed to do was address handling issues on perez car, he says he has been complaining of issues from day 1.max is having the same issues only recently so the only conclusion you can come up with is the two cars when never the same .perez was at time over a secound slower than max but on last race they were about equal. The latest tech directive on brake system looks to have affected redbull.

Not entirely true. They stopped experimenting with sidepod shapes because all teams have pretty much "agreed" the RedBull approach is probably the best compromise, but there are quite a lot of differences between the cars still, if you know where to look.

Perhaps the best example of that is Ferrari, which in fact is quite a bit different conceptually compared to RedBull. They might share the similar-ish sidepod shapes this year, but Ferrari maintains a lot of original ideas and they treat the under-floor completely differently.

[CjC]

Should Red Bull agree to reduce Newey's gardening leave so that Aston can take points from McLaren

For which season?

[selvam_e2002]

Should Red Bull agree to reduce Newey's gardening leave so that Aston can take points from McLaren

For which season?

AM done this year. they will be fighting for 9 and 10. So please don't count on them

[CjC]

Should Red Bull agree to reduce Newey's gardening leave so that Aston can take points from McLaren

For which season?

AM done this year. they will be fighting for 9 and 10. So please don't count on them

That’s why I’m ing

[Jurgen von Diaz]

If they had sacked Horner, would Newey and Wheatley still be on the team? We will never know.

[Raleigh]

Should Red Bull agree to reduce Newey's gardening leave so that Aston can take points from McLaren

For which season?

AM done this year. they will be fighting for 9 and 10. So please don't count on them

At current form Aston would start taking points off Red Bull.

[Vanja #66]

If they had sacked Horner, would Newey and Wheatley still be on the team? We will never know.

Tipycal clickbait, the original point is that "dispute didn't help" Who leaked the internal stuff to the public and put a huge spotlight and terrible pressure on RBR team?

[Jurgen von Diaz]

If they had sacked Horner, would Newey and Wheatley still be on the team? We will never know.

Tipycal clickbait, the original point is that "dispute didn't help" Who leaked the internal stuff to the public and put a huge spotlight and terrible pressure on RBR team?

Innocent Helmut was chased by Horner's group for leaking his d*ckpicks and text messages. A toxic work environment is one of the most common reasons why people change workplaces.

[AR3-GP]

Austin update will be the first attempt to fix the car.

COTA will show whether Red Bull have found a solution, says Helmut Marko

"We have to find the point at which we took a wrong turn during development. We already have a few conclusive findings, now we have to implement the corresponding technical changes quickly so that the car has the right balance again."

"The next two races on the street circuits in Baku and Singapore are of little significance in this respect. Austin will show whether we can achieve the turnaround."

https://www.oe24.at/sport/motorsport/fo ... /605607662

[KimiRai]

So there is indeed something coming for Austin according to Marko. Let's see, hopefully it works well.

[Henk_v]

I am not sure he is saying that. I think he means Austin is the first venue to assess the pace relative to the competition.