2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

There's a lot of people who seem to think it's folly not to have team orders. Here's a quick roll call of championship teams which have successfully run two number one drivers who traded wins without it being an issue.
1967 Hulme and Brabham
1978 Andretti and Peterson
1979 Schekter and Villeneuve
1980 Jones and Reuteman
1984 Lauda and Prost
1987 Piquet and Mansell
1988 Senna and Prost
1989 Prost and Senna
1996 Hill and Villeneuve
2009 Button and Barrichello
2010 Vettel and Webber (maybe this year only)
2014-16 Hamilton and Rosberg

You can talk about acrimonious team dynamics but if F1 really is a DRIVERS championship then let them sort it out!
Yeah Senna and Prost got pretty feisty as did Hamilton and Rosberg. Webber and Vettel had their moments but you had to point the finger at Horner and Marko for poor management.

If you want to go against "McLaren DNA" that's your opinion. In my opinion it's also a loser mentality as it alienates fans from the sport. At this point of the season there's many (including myself) who think Norris hasn't done enough to deserve the WDC, maybe in a few races time if he puts some good wins together that assessment may change. He's quick but fragile, he can do better if he gets his act together as he has a good car. I'm willing him on as I have every year since 2019.

So, what your saying is that there is more chance of a team winning the titles if they focus on a driver?

Especially as it's very rare that the WDC team doesn't also win the championship.

[BMMR61]

No that's not what the facts say. The list is best I can surmise where two well matched drivers battled it out with their teammate and brought the title home. Across the span of 50 championships I covered many times the drivers just weren't closely matched but that didn't have any bearing on the championship. Both your statements are not borne out in fact. It's also plenty the case that the WDC and WCC have gone different ways. My point is that the idea of having two excellent drivers being an impediment to winning championships is a nonsense. It can be a handful but what are managers for?!

[Ben1980]

No that's not what the facts say. The list is best I can surmise where two well matched drivers battled it out with their teammate and brought the title home. Across the span of 50 championships I covered many times the drivers just weren't closely matched but that didn't have any bearing on the championship. Both your statements are not borne out in fact. It's also plenty the case that the WDC and WCC have gone different ways. My point is that the idea of having two excellent drivers being an impediment to winning championships is a nonsense. It can be a handful but what are managers for?!

11 times in 65 seasons has the WCC not been one by the team who fielded the WDC. So it's really quite rare.

In recent years, having 2 challenging drivers has rarely been the way of winning either title. This may change, but it goes against recent history.

I dont expect either driver to be consistently beating the other over a season, and fear it will go against them overall, but with Ferrari having 2 big names, it may all be different.

[Henri]

Norris can blame himself for this, he is not a rookie. He has also been given priority on updates, and still his inexperienced team mate is breathing down his neck. This is going to be fun to watch.

[Ben1980]

Norris can blame himself for this, he is not a rookie. He has also been given priority on updates, and still his inexperienced team mate is breathing down his neck. This is going to be fun to watch.

Not sure what Norris is to be blamed for. He's ahead, he's smashed his teammate in qualifying, and will likely beat him again by seasons end.

And if Piastri wasn't breathing down his neck I'd be very disappointed.

[CjC]

Ok, so if anyone fancy’s a change of pace

This is a great interview with Stella:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-t ... /10651782/

It’s paywalled so I’ll only quote 2 things.
Firstly, supposedly there is a second ‘major’ update planned for the Mcl38:

Quote from the article, not Stella’s words:
‘Equally, whereas some rivals have introduced new parts that have not performed as expected, McLaren has been working on a second major upgrade for this season, but had not yet at the time of writing deployed it.’

Secondly, Stella does say that Mclaren are still behind on infrastructure…. Which surprised me to honest.

These are Stella’s actual words:
“The ‘what next’ for us is infrastructure. We have to keep adding capacity and capabilities. Tools – from a hardware and software point of view, we are behind. There has been a lack of investment for a long time. We are trying to compensate.”

[Henri]

Ok, so if anyone fancy’s a change of pace

This is a great interview with Stella:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-t ... /10651782/

It’s paywalled so I’ll only quote 2 things.
Firstly, supposedly there is a second ‘major’ update planned for the Mcl38:

Quote from the article, not Stella’s words:
‘Equally, whereas some rivals have introduced new parts that have not performed as expected, McLaren has been working on a second major upgrade for this season, but had not yet at the time of writing deployed it.’

Secondly, Stella does say that Mclaren are still behind on infrastructure…. Which surprised me to honest.

These are Stella’s actual words:
“The ‘what next’ for us is infrastructure. We have to keep adding capacity and capabilities. Tools – from a hardware and software point of view, we are behind. There has been a lack of investment for a long time. We are trying to compensate.”

Wonder what software they are missing

[CjC]

Oracle

[Darth-Piekus]

If Mclaren is doing that well despite being behind in some infrastructure then what are they gonna do when they are in front everywhere?

[mwillems]

Ok, so if anyone fancy’s a change of pace

This is a great interview with Stella:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/how-t ... /10651782/

It’s paywalled so I’ll only quote 2 things.
Firstly, supposedly there is a second ‘major’ update planned for the Mcl38:

Quote from the article, not Stella’s words:
‘Equally, whereas some rivals have introduced new parts that have not performed as expected, McLaren has been working on a second major upgrade for this season, but had not yet at the time of writing deployed it.’

Secondly, Stella does say that Mclaren are still behind on infrastructure…. Which surprised me to honest.

These are Stella’s actual words:
“The ‘what next’ for us is infrastructure. We have to keep adding capacity and capabilities. Tools – from a hardware and software point of view, we are behind. There has been a lack of investment for a long time. We are trying to compensate.”

Wonder what software they are missing

Strategy

[mwillems]

If Mclaren is doing that well despite being behind in some infrastructure then what are they gonna do when they are in front everywhere?

Be a little bit better.

[Darth-Piekus]

If Mclaren is doing that well despite being behind in some infrastructure then what are they gonna do when they are in front everywhere?

Be a little bit better.

I suppose they can be a little better meaning destroying the competition.

[ScottR267]

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1055025/1 ... ilton-link

Interesting if this was to be true

[BMMR61]

No that's not what the facts say. The list is best I can surmise where two well matched drivers battled it out with their teammate and brought the title home. Across the span of 50 championships I covered many times the drivers just weren't closely matched but that didn't have any bearing on the championship. Both your statements are not borne out in fact. It's also plenty the case that the WDC and WCC have gone different ways. My point is that the idea of having two excellent drivers being an impediment to winning championships is a nonsense. It can be a handful but what are managers for?!

11 times in 65 seasons has the WCC not been one by the team who fielded the WDC. So it's really quite rare.

In recent years, having 2 challenging drivers has rarely been the way of winning either title. This may change, but it goes against recent history.

I dont expect either driver to be consistently beating the other over a season, and fear it will go against them overall, but with Ferrari having 2 big names, it may all be different.

There's a simple nuance to the fact - dominant teams. Think McLaren in the 80s, Ferrari in the 00s, then RedBulls, Mercedes, and RedBulls again. You can win WDCs with competing teammates and WCCs (more rarely) with only one competitive driver, though this is a risky strategy (if it's a strategy at all) as we see with Perez.

[BMMR61]

Norris can blame himself for this, he is not a rookie. He has also been given priority on updates, and still his inexperienced team mate is breathing down his neck. This is going to be fun to watch.

Not sure what Norris is to be blamed for. He's ahead, he's smashed his teammate in qualifying, and will likely beat him again by seasons end.

And if Piastri wasn't breathing down his neck I'd be very disappointed.

Lando outqualifies Oscar by average of 1.5 positions per race and average gap of 0.13 if we adjust Spain for DNF. Most commonly they are <0.1 apart. The perfect team dynamic if the drivers behave with maturity (and they do).The reality is Lando is more consistent in both qualifying and racing, in fact he's always been acing qualifying. He should be able to win the WDC if, and it's a big if, Red Bull don't fix the balance issue with the RB20.

I'm sure if Lando misses out on the WDC everyone in the "team orders" lane will concoct their reasoning "if Lando had been gifted".... this and that, never accounting for the points he missed out on himself.