2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

This is where it gets a little frustrating. Both the team as a whole and Zak have emphatically said the opposite of this, so this is kind of putting words in their mouth.

Everyone expected some orders before the previous race, now it has happened. Before the previous I was surprised they weren't told not to fight. But they clearly were a little arrogant towards the threat of Ferrari before and still during the race.

But when you read the article and quotes from Stella, it is all about the team coming first, and not being in that position again. It's pretty clear they don't think the team was put first. Not sure there is another way they can say it.

Yes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't think Stella and co made a mistake with instructions to the drivers or how they were communicated. That you ignored that is giving unintentional bias towards another outcome by yourself.

And when Stella says the team coming first, I believe this also means Lando won't challenge Oscar if he is in the lead and there is a threat from a car behind. The team will be firmer with racing rules for both.

What I expect to happen is that the team will get both their cars to the line in the fastest way possible, no matter who is in the lead, and then if they have an opportunity and it is right, they will swap the drivers to help Lando, preferably through pits so it is less in the fans face than slowing on track.

I do think the team want any squabbling between drivers, that can risk anything. Last year, they touched, and im sure Stella said something then. Don't think it matters who is is front. I don't think that's new, maybe it needed reiterating.

They have always been about racing but not risking anything as a team.

Which is why it would appear, from these comments the line was stepped in Monza, because they squabbles and lost a place and maybe ( maybe not) lost a win.

But I don't think it's new from Stella.

They need to get in a position to then do what's best for the team overall.

[mwillems]

But when you read the article and quotes from Stella, it is all about the team coming first, and not being in that position again. It's pretty clear they don't think the team was put first. Not sure there is another way they can say it.

Yes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't think Stella and co made a mistake with instructions to the drivers or how they were communicated. That you ignored that is giving unintentional bias towards another outcome by yourself.

And when Stella says the team coming first, I believe this also means Lando won't challenge Oscar if he is in the lead and there is a threat from a car behind. The team will be firmer with racing rules for both.

What I expect to happen is that the team will get both their cars to the line in the fastest way possible, no matter who is in the lead, and then if they have an opportunity and it is right, they will swap the drivers to help Lando, preferably through pits so it is less in the fans face than slowing on track.

I do think the team want any squabbling between drivers, that can risk anything. Last year, they touched, and im sure Stella said something then. Don't think it matters who is is front. I don't think that's new, maybe it needed reiterating.

They have always been about racing but not risking anything as a team.

Which is why it would appear, from these comments the line was stepped in Monza, because they squabbles and lost a place and maybe ( maybe not) lost a win.

But I don't think it's new from Stella.

They need to get in a position to then do what's best for the team overall.

I think it's clear what the team want, that wasn't being questioned, it's just that one statement that ran counter to several that the team have made.

[Ben1980]

Yes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't think Stella and co made a mistake with instructions to the drivers or how they were communicated. That you ignored that is giving unintentional bias towards another outcome by yourself.

And when Stella says the team coming first, I believe this also means Lando won't challenge Oscar if he is in the lead and there is a threat from a car behind. The team will be firmer with racing rules for both.

What I expect to happen is that the team will get both their cars to the line in the fastest way possible, no matter who is in the lead, and then if they have an opportunity and it is right, they will swap the drivers to help Lando, preferably through pits so it is less in the fans face than slowing on track.

I do think the team want any squabbling between drivers, that can risk anything. Last year, they touched, and im sure Stella said something then. Don't think it matters who is is front. I don't think that's new, maybe it needed reiterating.

They have always been about racing but not risking anything as a team.

Which is why it would appear, from these comments the line was stepped in Monza, because they squabbles and lost a place and maybe ( maybe not) lost a win.

But I don't think it's new from Stella.

They need to get in a position to then do what's best for the team overall.

I think it's clear what the team want, that wasn't being questioned, it's just that one statement that ran counter to several that the team have made.

But that statement was more reading between the lines. I would not expect the team to come out and say it directly, I don't think they are that way inclined.

But, after the race Zak said he would rather they keep 1st and 2nd, and what else has been said, it indicates that they don't think that move was in the teams best interest.

Whether they needed to explicitly say don't go against the teams best interests is sonething. But, I would be surprised if that isn't said. Or maybe it was and they both took it in different ways, which was reported.

[mwillems]

Again, it's just that there are a few possible reasons and you are choosing to focus on one.

[Big Tea]

Some people here we were stating the obvious but we were just Piastri haters... anyway.

It all got a bit silly. It was all pretty clear, it was a good move at the wrong time. And I think the team have seen it as putting himself above the team.

But, it was always going to be the catalyst for change, and it has been.

This is where it gets a little frustrating. Both the team as a whole and Zak have emphatically said the opposite of this, so this is kind of putting opinion in their mouth, contrary to what has actually been said.

Everyone expected some orders before the previous race, now it has happened. Before the previous I was surprised they weren't told not to fight. But they clearly were a little arrogant towards the threat of Ferrari before and still during the race.

Much depends on Lando's interpretation of what the rules were. Did he think he was safe and not defend? If he thought his team mate would attack he would probably have driven a blocking line and been more concerned with defending than creating a gap or saving resource. We don't know how things would have played out without the rules set, he may have stayed infront and the problem never have occurred. The rules may have created a problem that was not there without them

[Waz]

They should stick to their original guns and chase the constructors championship.

Lando is further away now than he was after Miami, and there's zero evidence in his career so far that he could actually pull it off.

Besides, their whole race operations right now are so weak. Communication from R.Es is weak and indecisive, the molly coddling of Lando is hilariously cringe and ineffective.

[mwillems]

It all got a bit silly. It was all pretty clear, it was a good move at the wrong time. And I think the team have seen it as putting himself above the team.

But, it was always going to be the catalyst for change, and it has been.

This is where it gets a little frustrating. Both the team as a whole and Zak have emphatically said the opposite of this, so this is kind of putting opinion in their mouth, contrary to what has actually been said.

Everyone expected some orders before the previous race, now it has happened. Before the previous I was surprised they weren't told not to fight. But they clearly were a little arrogant towards the threat of Ferrari before and still during the race.

Much depends on Lando's interpretation of what the rules were. Did he think he was safe and not defend? If he thought his team mate would attack he would probably have driven a blocking line and been more concerned with defending than creating a gap or saving resource. We don't know how things would have played out without the rules set, he may have stayed infront and the problem never have occurred. The rules may have created a problem that was not there without them

I figured it was more about what the team expected from that situation based on Papaya rules and their thoughts on how it was communicated.

Zak and Stella have certainly both said it wasn't ideal. But the team and Zak have also said all racing was fair and within the instructions given. With that in mind, it's a stretch to now suggest that Oscar broke the spirit of the rules, because nothing like that has been suggested or hinted at by the team. The only indication that this is a change of heart on racing rules, a clarification, Oscar doing something naughty or that they needed Oscar's agreement for some reason is that last week they said they are not biased towards Lando and this week they are.

So it seems less a breach of the spirit and more a realisation that they need to support Lando and possibly some other agreement from Oscar has now arrived.

[Big Tea]

This is where it gets a little frustrating. Both the team as a whole and Zak have emphatically said the opposite of this, so this is kind of putting opinion in their mouth, contrary to what has actually been said.

Everyone expected some orders before the previous race, now it has happened. Before the previous I was surprised they weren't told not to fight. But they clearly were a little arrogant towards the threat of Ferrari before and still during the race.

Much depends on Lando's interpretation of what the rules were. Did he think he was safe and not defend? If he thought his team mate would attack he would probably have driven a blocking line and been more concerned with defending than creating a gap or saving resource. We don't know how things would have played out without the rules set, he may have stayed infront and the problem never have occurred. The rules may have created a problem that was not there without them

I figured it was more about what the team expected from that situation based on Papaya rules and their thoughts on how it was communicated.

Zak and Stella have certainly both said it wasn't ideal. But the team and Zak have also said all racing was fair and within the instructions given. With that in mind, it's a stretch to now suggest that Oscar broke the spirit of the rules, because nothing like that has been suggested or hinted at by the team. The only indication that this is a change of heart on racing rules, a clarification, Oscar doing something naughty or that they needed Oscar's agreement for some reason is that last week they said they are not biased towards Lando and this week they are.

So it seems less a breach of the spirit and more a realisation that they need to support Lando and possibly some other agreement from Oscar has now arrived.

That's what I mean. Interpretation may have been left to the drivers and both had differing concepts. I am not suggesting Oscar broke what he saw as the rules, but did Lando see the same bounds.

[dren]

It has been suggested that Oscar has contract language that doesn't allow him to play 2nd driver unless he approves it. Norris really needs to have better starts. Qualifying doesn't win you races.

[mwillems]

It has been suggested that Oscar has contract language that doesn't allow him to play 2nd driver unless he approves it. Norris really needs to have better starts. Qualifying doesn't win you races.

It may well be true, but everything I read seems more like gossip.

Naturally agree on the latter points.

[stewie325]

Expect to see even more pit strategy calls that favour Norris. It's extremely easy in the current regs to swap drivers via an undercut without having to order someone aside.

[bluechris]

To me, just to be safe in the starting laps is enough.

[Ben1980]

It has been suggested that Oscar has contract language that doesn't allow him to play 2nd driver unless he approves it. Norris really needs to have better starts. Qualifying doesn't win you races.

What's 2nd driver though. He has previously moved over for Lando, even in Silverstone Lando stopped first. It seems way to vague to say it's a thing.

I would also suggest that both drivers have clauses to do what's best for the team, and likely override any 2nd driver stuff.

[geogate]

if lando repeats a first few corner like monza, and we have a second driver that now wont over take him, I really fear for the constructors. Stifle Oscar at your peril - the constructors is still far from won

[BMMR61]

To me it is a bit disappointing the reactions to McLaren, papaya rules and so on. Journos have been going off and castigating their racing spirit. As a "racing fan" whose favourite team has always been McLaren I'm disappointed at the outcry from so many, being called "stupid", and accused of "throwing away the championship". It's hyperbolic and opposite to the desire for great racing. I aren't buying into a lot of the ideas that this announcement changes everything, I think there will still be some good racing between the two, maybe that will change as the races, and hopefully points, tick down.

A month ago when Max led Lando by 80 points or whatever there was hardly a comment about the WDC. That changed instantly that the order was reversed at Hungary to allow Oscar to regain his lead that was needlessly sacrificed. A segment went absolutely crazy and then came the pile-on. What has changed materially is the Red Bull performance relatively speaking, now arguably there is a remote chance of Lando being champion.

I think there's a fundamental mindset that should reflect Lando's chances - it's Max's and Red Bull's championship to lose much more than it's Lando's and McLaren's to win. A big difference! Screwing a teammate who is a future WDC prospect with a whole 8 races to go is something Zak and Stella have had to think long and hard about - I'm sure there have been some detailed discussions with the drivers regarding scenarios. I'm not dreaming of speculating what some of those scenarios may be, just going along to enjoy the racing, like I always have.