Ferrari SF-24

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
ing.
63
Joined: 15 Mar 2021, 20:00

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

With FIA green light on bendy front wing, I would expect that Ferrari are actively working on a more aggressive FW design to help their front end grip while bleeding off DF at speed which will be useful in helping control the bouncing.

User avatar
catent
0
Joined: 28 Mar 2023, 08:52
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

ing. wrote:
04 Sep 2024, 22:32
With FIA green light on bendy front wing, I would expect that Ferrari are actively working on a more aggressive FW design to help their front end grip while bleeding off DF at speed which will be useful in helping control the bouncing.
The question is whether or not Ferrari have the development resources to meaningfully pursue such a design at this stage in the season, and if such a design would be plug-and-play, or require reworks of other elements of the car get everything working together harmoniously (which would then require further development resources).

Xyz22
Xyz22
123
Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post


User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Let's keep speculation of new front wing in the team thread, where it belongs until it's on the car, thanks everyone :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
deadhead
52
Joined: 08 Apr 2022, 20:24

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Image

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Looking back at new diffuser photos made me think again about the new keel design and some peculiarities. Ferrari first introduced full rear boat keel design on 2nd F1-75 floor, introduced in Spain. It was a clean design and fully following the shape of vertical surfaces until they meet in the middle, as you'd expect from a such a geometric shape.

Image

While new keel, more than 2 years later, looks like this. 2nd photo is old keel design and I was convinced central mini ramp was a leftover geometry to be able to use "old" diffuser to save costs. As closer carbon weave and geometry inspection shows, new floor is completely new in that area and the geomwtry is similar, but not the same at any vertical cross section

Image

This mini ramp can be explained by existing chassis (crash structure) and gearbox design and thus it has to exist. Or it's there for aero purposes. Either way, I think there is some downforce generation on its bottom surface, ie the ramp. The air coming on either side follows the angle of main tunnel diffuser roof and this angle of airflow gradually reduces going down. In any case, airflow won't be anywhere near paralel to the central ramp once it reaches it, so one of two things happen:

- two contra rotating mini vortices are shed on each side (if the transition radius is small enough)
- there is an accelerarion of air on the transition radius if no vortices are shed

Both phenomena mean some downforce generation, where vortices would probably generate more, but I'm not sure if they can be formed. Available photos make it impossible to estimate if transition radius from vertical ramp wall to ramp surface is small enough. In any case, there is a discrete central keel junction at the bottom, thus eliminating any vertical kick, so any downforce generated there is practically very stable regardless of ride height at any time.

Image

Another interesting thing are these large radii transitions between floor tunnel roofs and keel, circled on each side above. There is a subtle drop in local roof height towards the keel, in an area where the main horizontal tunnel roof is already following near-mandated diffuser ramp geometry. I think this is where Ferrari is making up for lost keel ramp vertical kicks (present since launch spec floor), which generated a bit of rear local load but very dependant on ride height and probably subject to stalling in very low ride heights. As we all learned, this is one of the things that trigger bouncing if the stalled surface is big enough.

Both of these features make a big evolution step of diffuser area and Ferrari have done a lot of changes there in these 3 seasons. Seems to me like they don't want to generate any downforce with vertical kicks anywhere any more and want to rely on tunnels to generate the bulk of the floor downforce. This latest evolution opens up a lot of room for improvement in my view, especially with an eye of 2025 car.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Sevach
Sevach
1081
Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Image

I'm somewhat in doubt if the top wing is pure Monza or modified for slightly more downforce.

zioture
zioture
548
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 12:46
Location: Italy

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Image

matteosc
matteosc
30
Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 17:07

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

New wing or testing on an old one? Did/do we expect Ferrari to use the same rear wing of Monza or would that be too low drag?

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

matteosc wrote:
13 Sep 2024, 16:09
New wing or testing on an old one? Did/do we expect Ferrari to use the same rear wing of Monza or would that be too low drag?
Not a new wing, but they are using it with a new floor. Maybe there are also some subtle changes to the beam wing too, checkups are easy to do in FP1 and it's always better to be on the safe side.

As for Monza wing, there's hardly a piece of bodywork with too little drag, but wings can have too little downforce :mrgreen:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

matteosc
matteosc
30
Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 17:07

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
13 Sep 2024, 16:17
matteosc wrote:
13 Sep 2024, 16:09
New wing or testing on an old one? Did/do we expect Ferrari to use the same rear wing of Monza or would that be too low drag?
Not a new wing, but they are using it with a new floor. Maybe there are also some subtle changes to the beam wing too, checkups are easy to do in FP1 and it's always better to be on the safe side.

As for Monza wing, there's hardly a piece of bodywork with too little drag, but wings can have too little downforce :mrgreen:
Eheheh, that's true, I obvioulsy meant low downforce :lol:

User avatar
Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

The flow vis was there for a good reason in FP1, Ferrari's running Monza beam wing in Baku (top is Baku, bottom is Monza photo). Unlike Spa, where they ran the typical single-element BW first used in Jeddah, which seems to confirm their latest direction - to focus on making the floor run without stressing the flow too much, or even well within its "comfort zone." Ever since Miami, McLaren's been running their car with smaller beam wing than others and often times chose less load on tracks where you can still combine two different load levels - and always seemed to be able to run softer than RB and Ferrari - so seems like Ferrari finally caught up :mrgreen:

Image
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
mwillems
44
Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Pictures of the Ferrari at Singapore are available, some parts are arriving today.

I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Emag
Emag
84
Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:12
Pictures of the Ferrari at Singapore are available, some parts are arriving today.

Yeah can't see the new wing in that car. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow.

User avatar
mwillems
44
Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: Ferrari SF-24

Post

Emag wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:15
mwillems wrote:
19 Sep 2024, 12:12
Pictures of the Ferrari at Singapore are available, some parts are arriving today.

Yeah can't see the new wing in that car. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow.
Yeah I wasn't sure about the FW. Rumours of a FW that is more flexible are inbound but this looks to be the old one, as far as my eyes can tell.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit