Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[Shaddock]

It's wrong to blame it all on Max and the FIA. Renault (Flav and Symonds) have been given the rope and have hung themselves.

Ron just about escaped 'Stepneygate', with the biggest fine ever for his team, 'Liegate' finished him off. Whether he was directly involved in either incident is irrelevant, Max was looking for an excuse to drive a stake in him and Ron gave him one.

Flav, has done the same, and has paid for it with his job and reputation.

The team bosses had their chance and missed it to rid themselves of this sorry excuse for a man. They should have kicked up more of a fuss and threatened a breakaway series over 'whoregate'.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I doubt Renault will pay the fine, I can see them leaving the sport if that happens. The parent company has always been very strict in it's targets, it sees no value in the team unless it's winning. It might even be that they had a target to win a race last year otherwise it was game over, so Flav & Symonds masterminded the plan to win at Singapore, only to win the next race on merit anyway!

[Pup]

I think they'll lose their points for last year (and perhaps this), and their "fine" will be having to pay back their prize money.

Max will justify their treatment by saying that the team came clean and fired those responsible, unlike McLaren - which would actually be a pretty reasonable justification.

I also think the FIA will do the same with Flavio and Symonds as they did with Coughlin and Stepney - find them guilty and issue a letter urging teams not to hire them.

Renault will stay in the sport. Alonso's complicity will never be investigated nor even suggested.

[xpensive]

All that can be made for certain from this is that a deal has been made, including Briatore and Symonds leaving, no matter how much some of the members of this forum would like to read into it. There's still a hearing on Monday btw.

So what is the anticipated result of the hearing in your view? Surely we cannot expect a verdict of innocence? After all the accused have said they are not defending against the charges which is effectively a second class admission of guilt.

Again, the way I see things a deal has been done between FIA and Renault, which so far has resulted in Symonds and Briatore leaving, the latter I guess was MrM's primary objective. As for Monday's hearing, there is no telling of the outcome, it all depends what said deal included. We don't even know if Briatore and Symonds will be there, do we?

[Moanlower]

But here is what we don't know: did Briatore really do it? Quite simply, the evidence does not establish beyond reasonable doubt that he did.

Inconclusive telemetry, innocuous radio tapes, a statement from a hostile witness and some non-answers from the suspects – that’s all they had.

Did Flavio did what? He was aware of it and didn't do anything about it. A question you could ask is, who's idea was it. Fact is that both questions are secondary.

Inconclusive telemetry ? Did you have a good look at it ? http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/867/te ... nelson.jpg

About the innocuous radio tapes and statements .. are you kidding yourself ? I guess you're of those that suffers from the denial syndrome.

[gcdugas]

I can't believe it... crashing on purpose... This is unprecedented. How could anyone stoop so low! It could even have affected the outcome of the championship. Such people have no place in Formula One. Off with their heads. ...... Ironically guess who is among those being considered for the top spot at Renault? None other that a man who got screwed by such "race fixing".



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiGUSyN9-zk[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N__lw3LR ... re=related[/youtube]



Rightly or wrongly, this is perhaps the most famous photo in all F1 history....

[timbo]

Inconclusive telemetry ? Did you have a good look at it ? http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/867/te ... nelson.jpg

Before you show telemetry of his other crashes, I'd say it's inconclusive.

[Pup]

More documents than you care to read, courtesy of the FIA - I mean, an unidentifiable source...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formul ... aring.html

[siskue2005]

Inconclusive telemetry ? Did you have a good look at it ? http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/867/te ... nelson.jpg

Before you show telemetry of his other crashes, I'd say it's inconclusive.

what he is saying is, look at the throttle map
which keeps on going 100% even when he is spinning(see wheel spin data)

nobody keeps on pressing the throttle while on a spin and when you are going to hit a wall, unless on purpose

[siskue2005]

I can't believe it... crashing on purpose... see this Clicky... This is unprecedented. How could anyone stoop so low! It could even have affected the outcome of the championship. Such people have no place in Formula One.

indeed it did effect the WDC
it would have been an easy win for Massa
and he would have gone to the next race with 3 points lead, instead of 7 points behind
and in the end he lost the WDC by 1 point

[Miguel]

Inconclusive telemetry ? Did you have a good look at it ? http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/867/te ... nelson.jpg

Yes. Nelson is countersteering as soon as the slippage occurs, and lifts the throttle slightly in order to pick it. By the time he is full throttle again, he's probably backwards.

Finally, in order to prove this was totally intentional (which doesn't prove Renault implication) you need at least the telemetry for this turn many other times, plus the telemetry from many other Nelson crashes, to see how he acted.

[Pup]

There's many more pages of telemetry data at the link I posted just below. More than enough to confuse any argument as to whether it proves anything.

[timbo]

There's many more pages of telemetry data at the link I posted just below. More than enough to confuse any argument as to whether it proves anything.

Thanks for that link!
Look at docs 6 to 10.
He accelerated differently every lap and on one lap came very close to the traces of the lap he crashed. I wonder how it look at qualifying session.
You can also note that on the lap he crashed he braked later into turn 15 - he probably tried to improve his lap time.

[MildaEvilda]

I studied telemetry data thoroughly and only thing I had found was that Piquet was realy bad driver

[mx_tifoso]

So who takes over Briatore and Symonds' positions?