Flexiwings 2024

[Sevach]

[Vanja #66]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkdzUEswUMs

FIA openly turns a blind eye to this... Wonder which team gets special treatment next year for the sake of the show, will it be a resurgent Merc with a young gun or Newey's Aston?

[SiLo]

It's weird because the entire wing is flexing just like in 2021 when RB were heavily scrutinised. We have dots on the wings to check the level of flex, are they not being used anymore?

[AR3-GP]

But I disagree on the premise that this is somehow a game changer and that McLaren suddenly has +10kph on everyone without DRS and now nobody has a chance to overtake them if they're in front ...

At those speeds, it could be up to 5kmh more and judging by top speed data and DRS delta it's definitely at least 3-4kmh. More than enough to be critical for overtaking. Ferrari lost because they stayed 2 laps too long on mediums and because they stayed on typical Hard tyre warm up cycle instead of picking up the pace, but having been overtaken already it didn't help to fight a car that sheds considerably more drag than others on straights

It pays not only in top speed. It also leaves more energy available for recovery in each brake zone because it has not been consumed by drag. This has a compounding effect because being able to keep the battery a little bit more charged helps with acceleration out of corners and having more ERS energy available to defend lap after lap.

In other words, if the flap didn't move, he would have been slower on the straight, used more fuel and energy, and had a more depleted battery after each lap.

[peewon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkdzUEswUMs

FIA openly turns a blind eye to this... Wonder which team gets special treatment next year for the sake of the show, will it be a resurgent Merc with a young gun or Newey's Aston?

Based on the rear wing ban in 2022, front wing ban last year and Alonso's penalties, I can assure you it wont be Aston.

[Vanja #66]

It pays not only in top speed. It also leaves more energy available for recovery in each brake zone because it has not been consumed by drag. This has a compounding effect because being able to keep the battery a little bit more charged helps with acceleration out of corners and having more ERS energy available to defend lap after lap.

In other words, if the flap didn't move, he would have been slower on the straight, used more fuel and energy, and had a more depleted battery after each lap.

They can't harvest more than 2MJ per lap and I doubt he used less fuel. Power demand rises with v^3, while Cd is linearly dependant, eg. 3% less total drag means roughly 1% higher top speed for the same power. The idea would be to use the same amount of fuel to go faster ona power circuit like Baku

[AR3-GP]

It pays not only in top speed. It also leaves more energy available for recovery in each brake zone because it has not been consumed by drag. This has a compounding effect because being able to keep the battery a little bit more charged helps with acceleration out of corners and having more ERS energy available to defend lap after lap.

In other words, if the flap didn't move, he would have been slower on the straight, used more fuel and energy, and had a more depleted battery after each lap.

They can't harvest more than 2MJ per lap and I doubt he used less fuel. Power demand rises with v^3, while Cd is linearly dependant, eg. 3% less total drag means roughly 1% higher top speed for the same power. The idea would be to use the same amount of fuel to go faster ona power circuit like Baku

They are harvesting more than 2MJ per lap. Thanks to Honda, we know how:

The maximum amount of energy that can be sent directly from the MGU-K to the ES is 2 MJ per lap, so rather than sending any recovered energy over 2 MJ to the ES, that energy is sent to the MGU-H, which has no restrictions on energy exchanged with the ES. After being used for only a moment to assist the MGU-H, the inertial energy from the rotor is then immediately recovered. Through continuous repetition of this assist-to-recovery cycle at a frequency of 20 Hz or less, the recovered energy is sent to the ES. This is known as Extra Harvest.

They just spin the MGU-H a little bit more directly from the MGU-K, and then immediately recover it. This happens up to 20 times a second.
https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related


Obtaining this drag reduction widens the operating window. There is energy which is no longer consumed which means it can be harvested for better battery maintenance, longer defensive deployment, and so on. You have flexibility. You can use that energy in a normal fashion to optimize laptime, or you can use it to support defense in a track battle.

[Vanja #66]

They are harvesting more than 2MJ per lap. Thanks to Honda, we know how:

Obtaining this drag reduction widens the operating window. There is energy which is no longer consumed which means it can be harvested for better battery maintenance, longer defensive deployment, and so on. You have flexibility. You can use that energy in a normal fashion to optimize laptime, or you can use it to support defense in a track battle.

Fair enough

[Tommy Cookers]

... It pays not only in top speed. It also leaves more energy available for recovery in each brake zone because it has not been consumed by drag....

yes it could leave more energy available for recovery ....
but that 'more' energy is inaccessible as the MGU-K recovers at 120 kW (a small fraction of total braking at high speed)
this worsened by the rear DF being lessened (if flexiwing is rear axle DF affecting more than front axle DF affecting)

for more KE recovery there would need to be less max DF ie a longer braking zone (so giving more time at 120 kW)
wouldn't this be apparent to the viewer ?

what is clear is that more energy ie fuel will be available for (as the earlier post mentioned) the Honda-style 'extra harvest'

[AR3-GP]

... It pays not only in top speed. It also leaves more energy available for recovery in each brake zone because it has not been consumed by drag....

yes it leaves more energy available for recovery ....
but that 'more' energy is inaccessible as the MGU-K can only recover at 120 kW ....
this worsened by the rear DF being lessened (if the bad flex is rear axle DF affecting more than front axle DF affecting)

for more KE recovery there would need to be less max DF ie a longer braking zone (so giving more time at 120 kW )
this should be apparent to the viewer

There are two harvesting components. MGU-H and MGU-K. MGU-H to energy store recovery rate is unlimited. Teams recover with the MGU-H at full throttle near the end of the straight depending on the modes selected by the driver which orient the power unit towards max power, max recovery, and anywhere in between.

You guys are making this too complicated. When there is excess energy, it is always available to be captured due to the MGU-K and MGU-H. You can either utilize the drag reduction for the top speed benefit, or you can neutralize it by harvesting a little bit more on the straights compared to the same car without a partially open DRS flap. No matter which way you choose, there is a net gain coming from having less parasitic energy consumption than a car with a closed DRS.

[FNTC]

[Vanja #66]

Whole DRS gets about 15-20km/h. There is no way slight bending of the wing at the end gets you 5-6 km/h.

On these small wings reducing frontal area with DRS results in roughly 40% smaller frontal area. Tilting the wing this much and letting DRS flap tips reduces frontal area by at least 15%. Up to 5kmh difference is absolutely valid assumption

[chrisc90]

[lio007]

This sounds like the FIA is fine with this.

[chrisc90]

Exactly my reasoning. Taking the same stance as they did with the front wing. And it’s blatantly against the regs