Flexiwings 2024

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falonso81
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Joined: 04 Sep 2013, 15:29

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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It should not matter if the wing passes the static load test. What should matter is that the space between the flap and the main plane, should not increase or decrease at any point on track.

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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falonso81 wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 18:12
It should not matter if the wing passes the static load test. What should matter is that the space between the flap and the main plane, should not increase or decrease at any point on track.
But the FIA are controlling it with a static load test, against which the technical teams are designing, specifying and testing themselves.

The "gate" has been left open, there's inadequate control in reality.

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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I dont think there are any static load tests that pull ‘up’ on the DRS flap when closed. Only test I’m aware of is the slot gap of 85mm with the roller thing (one that Lewis was caught out with in 2021)

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Flexiwings 2024

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Farnborough wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 18:19
falonso81 wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 18:12
It should not matter if the wing passes the static load test. What should matter is that the space between the flap and the main plane, should not increase or decrease at any point on track.
But the FIA are controlling it with a static load test, against which the technical teams are designing, specifying and testing themselves.

The "gate" has been left open, there's inadequate control in reality.
I do question what will happen if after saying they'll change it Mclaren(or any other team) showed up with something in that vein.
Are they updating the tests?

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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They're not doing a good job at policing this, are they?

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: Flexiwings 2024

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organic wrote:They're not doing a good job at policing this, are they?
The moment you don’t prosecute the noodle cars you are opening the flood gates.

Whatever is coming, FIA inconsistency brought it onto themselves.

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Flexiwings 2024

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dialtone wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 19:00
organic wrote:They're not doing a good job at policing this, are they?
The moment you don’t prosecute the noodle cars you are opening the flood gates.

Whatever is coming, FIA inconsistency brought it onto themselves.
Pretty much.

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organic
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Re: Flexiwings 2024

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Now pretty much nobody is happy

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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I think McLaren can be very happy. They had a P2, double podium and a win with an obviously illegal wing which gave them a decent benefit in the race on all 3 tracks
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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Well I was certainly happy that it was legal for so long 🤣🤣
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Espresso
Espresso
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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mwillems wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 20:27
Well I was certainly happy that it was legal for so long 🤣🤣
Agree. FIA tightens the rules quickly. Only when DAS Team finds something is it allowed till next season…😬

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Quantum
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Joined: 14 Jan 2017, 00:59

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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organic wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 18:56
They're not doing a good job at policing this, are they?
In terms of efficacy, the FIA have moved far quicker now than they did in 2021 when they let a development race for a further 3 events that ultimately led to a championship win.

That's if consistency is important to a point.
"Interplay of triads"

djones
djones
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Re: Flexiwings 2024

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pantherxxx wrote:
20 Sep 2024, 14:34
I read that Mclaren gained 3 km/h speed in the straights thanks to the tricky DRS. That would be at least 0.2 seconds advantage per lap, and now it's no more.
But they are still looking very fast. Consistently faster then the Redbull team that's in turmoil.

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Vanja #66
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Re: Flexiwings 2024

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We have an all-time winner here, absolute legend of taking 10% of available information and making up a story around it! Of all the nonsense Gary A wrote, this one's out head and shoulders above the rest

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/gary ... rear-wing/
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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hollus
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Flexiwings 2024

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A small reflection not related to raisingflaptipsgate.

This is about rear wings sitting on a flexible mount (they all do it to different extents), tilting backwards... and forwards?

I'll try to illustrate with some hopefully representative numbers, but warning: numbers taken out of derriere. Numbers might be dirty or smelly, even wrong. Hopefully they illustrate the point and someone more familiar with the actual numbers can provide any necesary adjustments.

So, rear wing aseemblies tilt back at speed due to drag. Say 400 kg of drag at 300 km/h? (I know, I should use N). That aseembly, the rear wing, is a 30 kg object sitting at the end of a cantilever. Drag pushes it back, and the whole thing tilts from where it joins the chasis and flexes along its stands. End result: less angle of attack and less drag.

Now, if the rear wing's drag is 400 kg at 300 km/h, it might be like 100 kg at 150 km/h.
That's just drag. That's what we always talk about when it comes to rear wings bending backwards and losing angle of attack.

But now look at that same 30 kg object, suspended at the end of a lever, under braking. 5g braking (300 km/h?) that is 150 kg pushing the wings mass forwards relative to the car. The drag still wins, but only by 250 kg.
3.5 g braking? Is that what happens at 150 km/h? That's 105 kg. So it cancels the drag. The wing is now back in the position it was when we looked at all those pictures in the pits on thursday. The wing is not experiencing less backwards force than at speed, instead it is experiencing no net force at all in that direction (only under braking).

Now brake at 100 km/h, and suddenly drag on the wing is about 45 kg, but inertia forces from braking on the wing are about 80 kg. And the wing is being pushed, for tha brief (but lap time critical) moment, forwards.
It is on this cantilever, it tilts as it moves forwards, so it follows that its angle of attack of the wing would increase for that brief moment, when the air is slower and thus less prone to separating. Higher angle of attack -> more downforce.

One could argue that the actual design of the wing is not the angle at which it sits in the pits, but the angle at which it sits in its more function critical speed, arguably between 150 and 200 km/h. And that might well happen to be the same as in the pits! And if we look at that as its "default" position...
...now we are not just looking at top speed gains at terminal speed coming from that cantilever flexibility, but also at downforce gains at the slowest corners.

Is this way off?
Rivals, not enemies.