Teams working together

[trinidefender]

This may sound like a rant but it's been going on for years and I, and I'm sure others, are fairly fed up of it.

Why hasn't the FIA cracked down on teams that are supposed to be 100% separate from working together to influence the championship.

It's an issue now with Red Bull/VCARB. It's been an issue before with Ferrari/HAAS with wind tunnel usage and teams personal supposedly doing work for both. It's been an issue with Mercedes and Williams before that getting drivers to hold up competitors.

Now we have another team's driver pitting to set the fastest to directly influence a championship fight. Direct effect not indirect.It all has to stop. It's terrible for the sport.

It's one thing for drivers of the same team to do it. It's another when it's different teams, regardless of being owned by the same person/company, work together on track.

This is also different from manufacturer support for PU's or wind tunnel usage (except in the alleged case of HAAS and Ferrari some years ago which has since been scrutinized and changes made).

[chrisc90]

Is there any proof that Red Bull asked VCARB to box Daniel for fastest lap or is it just speculation?

Too many people are so hurt over 1 point.

[organic]

It's stupid and ridiculous that Red Bull can own two teams and have both contributing to a common goal. In 2021 I'd argue Alpha Tauri played a bigger role than VCARB have this year but only because they had a more competitive car. Tsunoda/Gasly would race Mercedes harder (Turkey), they would dive out of the way for Verstappen (Qatar).

It's unsustainable but there's no push from the sport bar McLaren to force Red bull to sell one team. It's not like they'd be in financial difficulty if they were forced to sell it either. In fact they were considering offers less than 12 months ago but nobody reached valuation so do they even really want to keep it?

If Norris and Verstappen finish 1-2 in every remaining race and sprint then max wins by 1 point I believe.. so yea every point counts

[lio007]

Is this the reason for creating the thread?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10657148/

It may look like peculiar (to use Andrea Stella's word) that RIC took the fastest lap. But I think it was VCARB that wanted to give him a farewell gift rather than steal it from Lando.

[organic]

Is this the reason for creating the thread?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10657148/

It may look like peculiar (to use Andrea Stella's word) that RIC took the fastest lap. But I think it was VCARB that wanted to give him a farewell gift rather than steal it from Lando.

Laurent Mekies:

"Given this may have been Daniel’s last race, we wanted to give him the chance to savour it and go out with the fastest lap."

Of course, this can be subject to scrutiny

[trinidefender]

Is there any proof that Red Bull asked VCARB to box Daniel for fastest lap or is it just speculation?

Too many people are so hurt over 1 point.

It's not about one point, one hundred points or zero points. It's about drivers team members of supposedly unrelated teams taking actions to help another team/driver that have a direct impact on the championship.

About your point of proof. What other reasonable reason could there have been for Daniel pitting to go for fastest lap. He was out of the points.

Also like I said, this isn't only related to Red Bull, it's just this incident is the latest and potentially, the most obvious example.

P.s. lastly, this one point does matter. It makes the difference between continuing an average points difference per race to make the WDC closer or making it further away. So yes. It does matter.

[bauc]

Is there any proof that Red Bull asked VCARB to box Daniel for fastest lap or is it just speculation?

Too many people are so hurt over 1 point.

Its not about the point, its a matter of principle, and like Andrea said, this is a constructors battle first and foremost, and two teams acting as 1 against a competitor is not in the spirit of the rules, each team needs to be individual in their fight and decision making.

[chrisc90]

Is there any proof that Red Bull asked VCARB to box Daniel for fastest lap or is it just speculation?

Too many people are so hurt over 1 point.

It's not about one point, one hundred points or zero points. It's about drivers team members of supposedly unrelated teams taking actions to help another team/driver that have a direct impact on the championship.

About your point of proof. What other reasonable reason could there have been for Daniel pitting to go for fastest lap. He was out of the points.

Also like I said, this isn't only related to Red Bull, it's just this incident is the latest and potentially, the most obvious example.

P.s. lastly, this one point does matter. It makes the difference between continuing an average points difference per race to make the WDC closer or making it further away. So yes. It does matter.

What other reasonable reason would Haas and Magnusson go for the fastest lap then aswell? They were at the back of the pack too. But hey, their not in the top 10, they shouldnt be allowed to go for fastest lap - according to your reasoning.

What if Daniel drove for say Williams, and he's also Max's best mate? Would your best mate not be there to try help you to get all the points you can to maximise your chance of winning the WDC? Maybe that shouldnt be allowed either.

1 point really doesnt matter it seems. Norris has gained just 1 point in the last 12 races in such a dominant car, whilst the Red Bull has struggled. A lot at times. If you cant make use of those 12 races to gain more than a average of 0.08points per race, then there is something wrong.

If I was a McLaren fan, Id be substantially more worried why my driver thats got the most chance of winning the WDC, has only managed 1 point gain to the championship leader in 12 races.

[Ferry]

Too many people are so hurt over 1 point.

Championships have been won/lost by 1 point. 2007, 2008

Laurent Mekies:
"Given this may have been Daniel’s last race, we wanted to give him the chance to savour it and go out with the fastest lap."

Ricc quit Red Bull because he didn't want to be Max' wingman. The the last thing he does is help Max win WDC

[trinidefender]

Is this the reason for creating the thread?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10657148/

It may look like peculiar (to use Andrea Stella's word) that RIC took the fastest lap. But I think it was VCARB that wanted to give him a farewell gift rather than steal it from Lando.

Laurent Mekies:

"Given this may have been Daniel’s last race, we wanted to give him the chance to savour it and go out with the fastest lap."

Of course, this can be subject to scrutiny

That would be an unprecedented move by a team and it is LM job to explain away very inconvenient scenarios like this. I would take his statement with a bigger mountain of salt than an entire oceans worth as I would a controversial statement by any team principal.

[organic]

If I was a McLaren fan, Id be substantially more worried why my driver thats got the most chance of winning the WDC, has only managed 1 point gain to the championship leader in 12 races.

Ricciardo halved his point gain, is what I'm hearing!

[stonehenge]

The real question is would've Ricciardo done the same if Max had held the fastest lap...

And yes, it's not a big deal in terms of points, but in all fairness to McLaren, they've been complaining about the RB-RB relationship for A LONG time. They're not just griping about it now because it hurt them today.

[organic]

Ricciardo:

"Part of me is – I don’t mean this against Lando – but part of me is hoping Max wins by one point, because I think I guaranteed myself a really nice Christmas present if so,” he told Sky.

“It’s just, I think obviously, yeah, it’s with a little bit of Red Bull in mind. But maybe just to have one last crack at doing a fast one, if it is to be it.”

[trinidefender]

Ricciardo:

"Part of me is – I don’t mean this against Lando – but part of me is hoping Max wins by one point, because I think I guaranteed myself a really nice Christmas present if so,” he told Sky.

“It’s just, I think obviously, yeah, it’s with a little bit of Red Bull in mind. But maybe just to have one last crack at doing a fast one, if it is to be it.”

I've lost every ounce of respect I had for Riccardo and to think I was genuinely a fan of his.

[GrizzleBoy]

The real question is would've Ricciardo done the same if Max had held the fastest lap...

And yes, it's not a big deal in terms of points, but in all fairness to McLaren, they've been complaining about the RB-RB relationship for A LONG time. They're not just griping about it now because it hurt them today.

No. Simple as that.

If they arrive in Abu Dhabi with Max ahead in the WDC by 1 point due to fastest lap in that race, anyone who thinks VCARB would make their driver arbitrarily fight for the fastest lap (even if they couldnt get the point), is a liar.

Simple as that.

I dont understand why so much of F1 depends on haslighting and people being treated like idiots.

Teams fight and spend hundreds of millions for fractions of a second speed improvements, but were expected to believe that a team who literally owns two more cars on track than every other team would NEVER use that advatage, to their advantage.

Let alone a ruthless team like Red Bull.