2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[PlatinumZealot]

Dear lord what a complete garbage dump this thread has become. Gets worse race by race. Unbelievable.

Is it forum traffic that is prioritized no matter what or what is it?

Exactly. On the Ferrari & Rb threads they have good amateur data analysts & “experts” who contribute regularly & sort of up the contributing standards, in the Merc we’ve got some of the dumbest musings anywhere on this forum. It’s a problem

Are you one of those contibutors? Can you point us to your profound data analyses in this thread?

[mendis]

As an aside, comparing the pace of both Mercedes cars on the Hards is an interesting errand. I'm just guessing, but perhaps one of them had to overtake some cars? But it's interesting that 'George fans' apparently expect their driver to be slower in clean air than the washed up pensioner is in dirty. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

[organic]

The car still has an extremely narrow window and inconsistent aero. The front wing update brought the balance into a good place, but that remains true only when the conditions are right.

Vegas will almost certainly be cold which is good for Merc engines and the car's preference with the tyres. Could see that race being good and interlagos if rain comes

[CHT]

Mclaren winning the WCC this year will put a lot of pressure on Merc team for sure. Considering the Merc's drivers line up for 2025, vs Lando and Oscar for 2025, I am will not put too much hope on Merc to win any championship in 2025.
Even in 2026, it may be possible the Mclaren, if given the same Merc engine, may continue to outperform Merc AMG F1.

[organic]

Mclaren winning the WCC this year will put a lot of pressure on Merc team for sure. Considering the Merc's drivers line up for 2025, vs Lando and Oscar for 2025, I am will not put too much hope on Merc to win any championship in 2025.
Even in 2026, it may be possible the Mclaren, if given the same Merc engine, may continue to outperform Merc AMG F1.

Perhaps, but unlikely. Advantage for works team grows with both a new engine and chassis formula, even if McLaren did recently negotiate a 'seat at the table' in terms of engine design

[DRS]

As an aside, comparing the pace of both Mercedes cars on the Hards is an interesting errand. I'm just guessing, but perhaps one of them had to overtake some cars? But it's interesting that 'George fans' apparently expect their driver to be slower in clean air than the washed up pensioner is in dirty. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

And people are forgetting that Hamilton fell almost 25 secs behind Russell on ten lap older hards.

[xaero]

As an aside, comparing the pace of both Mercedes cars on the Hards is an interesting errand. I'm just guessing, but perhaps one of them had to overtake some cars? But it's interesting that 'George fans' apparently expect their driver to be slower in clean air than the washed up pensioner is in dirty. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

And people are forgetting that Hamilton fell almost 25 secs behind Russell on ten lap older hards.

keep trolling by conveniently ignoring that he had nothing to gain by pushing and finishing his tyres way earlier.

[GrizzleBoy]

As an aside, comparing the pace of both Mercedes cars on the Hards is an interesting errand. I'm just guessing, but perhaps one of them had to overtake some cars? But it's interesting that 'George fans' apparently expect their driver to be slower in clean air than the washed up pensioner is in dirty. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

Is there no reason you could see why a driver who knows hes pitted way too early onto a tyre expecred to go to the end of the race would maybe have an overall lower lap delta vs a driver who goes onto those tyres 11 laps later and therefore has 11 laps less wear to manage till the end of the race?

Isnt it obvious?

[mendis]

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

And people are forgetting that Hamilton fell almost 25 secs behind Russell on ten lap older hards.

keep trolling by conveniently ignoring that he had nothing to gain by pushing and finishing his tyres way earlier.

I was wondering what the heck he was doing by not pushing. A one stop on Softs was a wild goose chase. If he would have gained position, he could have stretched a bit, hold off Max or both Max and Lando for a while. But he wouldn't have held them longer. Because he didn't achieve that objective and by trying to manage those Softs, he slowed his team mate and allowed Leclerc to execute a strategy that made him overtake Ham. He should have forced a two stop strategy or atleast his team should have gone further bold and give him Softs-Softs or mediums--Hard two stop and asked him to push in all his stints. Result could have been similar or better. That's where Ham and Mercedes both lag. When Russell pulls something of that sort, it's a mayhem.

One mistake Russell has committed many times that Ham did on Sunday was, when he is no man's land behind front runners, he won't push and just cruise around, allowing Ham to come and get him later in the race, when Ham starts farther back. Making it look like Ham had better race pace. It's the time you give up that costs sometimes very dearly.

[DRS]

It was a strategy destined to fail, if they wanted to try something different they should have started on the hards.

[Mosin123]

As an aside, comparing the pace of both Mercedes cars on the Hards is an interesting errand. I'm just guessing, but perhaps one of them had to overtake some cars? But it's interesting that 'George fans' apparently expect their driver to be slower in clean air than the washed up pensioner is in dirty. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

Is there no reason you could see why a driver who knows hes pitted way too early onto a tyre expecred to go to the end of the race would maybe have an overall lower lap delta vs a driver who goes onto those tyres 11 laps later and therefore has 11 laps less wear to manage till the end of the race?

Isnt it obvious?

Same people, saying the same stuff, just ignore them.

[Vanja #66]

I don't know mate, they have always been very poor at strategy. Thankfully for us Lewis fans, Ferrari appear to have improved in that department with Vasseur in charge.

It's a completely different team compared to even a year ago, let alone comparing to several previous management periods. Finally

I think it was discussed earlier but they must have thought the race leader would drive off the pace a la Monaco for example. Problem is Lando decided he wanted to embarrass Max and Redbull and he pullled away at an alarming rate. So starting on softs became an idiotic decision. They could have survived if lando drove at snail pace though.

I'm not sure how or why they would think an easy going pace was ever an option. In Singapore 23 Sainz drove slowly after the final SC period as they didn't want anyone else to think about changing tyres like Mercedes did. Leclerc started that race on Softs, jumped Russell and him and Sainz pushed hard in 1st stint to make a safety gap.

In Monaco 24, Leclerc also slowed down the whole race to back everyone up after everyone already switched to another tyre during red flag. You never back down the field in the 1st stint, it's too risky and absolutely not worth it. I'm having a hard time believing no one in Mercedes understood this and failed to mention the faux logic behind using Softs on Hamilton in 1st stint

[mendis]

As an aside, comparing the pace of both Mercedes cars on the Hards is an interesting errand. I'm just guessing, but perhaps one of them had to overtake some cars? But it's interesting that 'George fans' apparently expect their driver to be slower in clean air than the washed up pensioner is in dirty. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worthy of comment.

Russell spent most of his first stint behind Ham, but also ran a good long stint by keeping those mediums alive when Ham pitted. Ham complained of tyres after a bunch of laps on hards, whereas Russell managed to keep a charging Leclerc behind, who had far better pace. That's the standout race pace difference between the two Merc drivers. Ham's pace on a few laps old hards was just about the same as Russell who was on mediums in his first stint.

People are discounting Russell's ability to manage his race pace. He has vastly improved on that front, while keeping his qualifying speed.

Is there no reason you could see why a driver who knows hes pitted way too early onto a tyre expecred to go to the end of the race would maybe have an overall lower lap delta vs a driver who goes onto those tyres 11 laps later and therefore has 11 laps less wear to manage till the end of the race?

Isnt it obvious?

Data to ponder upon who was pushing and who wasn't.
Russell was managing his tyres in his second stint and that's why his times were very consistent till the end.
Ham started easy on his second stint, then started pushing. Then his tyres fell away.
Russell's fastest lap was on 30th lap (3rd lap of second stint).
Ham's came on 43rd lap (26th lap of second stint).
Going by that, if Russell would have pushed in his second stint, he would have lost the ability to hold up Leclerc to the end. But if he did push, then the delta to Ham would have been bigger in the beginning of his stint. It just shows how well Russell managed his stint. Remember, just like Ham had cars in front of him in second stint, Russell had Ham in front of him in the first stint and yet, managed a consistent stint throughout.

[mendis]

At this point in his career and with the current state of affairs at Mercedes, Ham has lost his desire and consequently patience to think through and execute a good race. He only wakes up if the car is capable of winning, anything lesser doesn't matter. That's perfectly ok for someone that has achieved everything in F1 and only thing that motivates him is the opportunity to win. But to take his washed out qualifying (other than singapore) and race performaces and justify there were other reasons why he didn't perform and blame everything under the sun, is a moot point. He has had off weekends in his prime even when he had a car to win. So dropping shoulders when the car isn't to his liking, isn't out of ordinary.

[DGP123]

At this point in his career and with the current state of affairs at Mercedes, Ham has lost his desire and consequently patience to think through and execute a good race.

Apart from his entire mid season, whereby he showed plenty of desire, banked two wins, 4th in Canada/Austria and two more podiums in Spain & Hungary. I think those results show he can execute good races.

More nonsense.