Mercedes W15

[Lasssept]

[Lasssept]

[Sevach]

[Emag]

Just looking back on this year with all the flex wings saga, I went and did a little research on Mercedes cars on this new era (2022-2024). People took these words from the team, about something clicking and finally making sense for them and because there was a lot of attention on front wings flexing at the time, everyone just made the assumption that this silver bullet that somehow gave Mercedes a lot of performance in the midseason, was indeed the flexing front wing.

I never believed for a moment that a flexing front wing could be the differentiating factor between a car that struggles and a car that fights for wins. It could help a little with consistency when you're already at the top, but it has never been the "secret" to actually being at the top. Not in previous eras and I don't believe that it changed in this era as well.

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :



It was very hard to find nose cam footage of this car for some reason, but I was certain that they must have had it back then just judging by how much angle there was on that front wing back in 2022 and I wanted to confirm those suspicions. Finally after some browsing, I came across this video.

It's therefore logical to conclude that the flexing front wing was not a major factor in Mercedes' upturn in performance during the mid-season. Then that begs the question on what else could it have been?

Can't really know for sure, but I suspect their gimmick front wing with which they started the season has to do something with it. They kept minimizing its effect until they got rid of it altogether at Monaco. In my opinion, this was one of those ideas that worked well theoretically under the ideal wind tunnel conditions, but it never translated to on-track performance due to the many more variables that are introduced on a real racing scenario.

Other than that, I genuinely believe the "eureka" moment was more setup-related than a magical new part they put on the car that suddenly fixed everything. They were perhaps going about it the wrong way on prioritizing certain balance properties which might have been successful for them on the previous era, but it did not translate on these ground effect cars. It's inline with the fingerprint of their struggles, because they have tended to vary quite a bit from track to track. These old setup markers perhaps worked better at some tracks and worse at others and they were at a loss to explain why that was happening.

Once they found the right window, they probably had to re-adapt their simulation software to suggest the right setup from track to track, however I do think they were also flattered a bit by the run of cold-weather races which their car seems to love the most out of the top 4. They haven't been able to replicate race-winning performance on any hot-weather track.

Nevertheless, It does seem like they were still prioritizing the wrong things when it comes to the development path / plan, because the floor they brought at Spa has introduced a storm of new headaches.

[avantman]

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :

Mercedes were the leaders in this area in 2021 already. Not sure how could anyone miss that. Of course that wasn't invented by Mclaren. Front and rear wings were flexing significantly on some cars before 2021. Mclaren only pushed this to extreme this year, front wing especially.

[pierrre]

probably to generate vortex. it may be for airflow attachment where the halo support structure is mounted. could be a version of how ferrari stabilizes airflow and keeping it tight in this region with those fins sprouting off the sidepod but mercedes-amg using votex fundamentals to achieve this

[.poz]

Just looking back on this year with all the flex wings saga

[....]

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :

https://i.imgur.com/lmwyxVy.png

It's therefore logical to conclude that the flexing front wing was not a major factor in Mercedes' upturn in performance during the mid-season. Then that begs the question on what else could it have been?

IMHO you are looking at the "wrong" flexing

every car have the two flaps bending backwards, someone more someone less

The flexibility that really matters is on the first and second elements on the front wing which bends toward the ground and probably twist a little bit.

I' haven't found a video of the MB front wing...

to clarify what I'm talking about look at this of Mclaren, look at the bottom left corner

https://x.com/433_marc/status/183535404 ... zZJC3hwjfA

[Emag]

Just looking back on this year with all the flex wings saga

[....]

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :

https://i.imgur.com/lmwyxVy.png

It's therefore logical to conclude that the flexing front wing was not a major factor in Mercedes' upturn in performance during the mid-season. Then that begs the question on what else could it have been?

IMHO you are looking at the "wrong" flexing

every car have the two flaps bending backwards, someone more someone less

The flexibility that really matters is on the first and second elements on the front wing which bends toward the ground and probably twist a little bit.

I' haven't found a video of the MB front wing...

to clarify what I'm talking about look at this of Mclaren, look at the bottom left corner

https://x.com/433_marc/status/183535404 ... zZJC3hwjfA

It is the same flexing. The flaps are being pulled backwards by the downforce, and they're taking a little bit of the front wing assembly via the endplate with them. You can't see the outboard section on the video I shared because it has been cropped by the author. You would notice the same thing you're noticing at the McLaren wing happening there too, just because that's how the wing would naturally behave when designed that way. There's no "special" flexing in any front wing on the grid. It's exactly the same on all of them, however the movement behavior changes depending on a couple of things, amongst which the most straightforward are:

1 - composite characteristics
2 - flap angle (the bigger the angle, the bigger the force exerted)
3 - flap length (the longer the flap, the bigger the area hitting the air, the bigger the force exerted)
4 - flap connection with the endplate and the separation at the inboard section (the flimsier the connection, the more flexing is "allowed")

Nevertheless, this doesn't really have to do anything with McLaren. It was a recall to back when people were associating this "eureka" moment at Mercedes, with the flexing front wing. A premise I disagree with because they were already utilizing the same phenomena to an even greater extent back in 2022. If nothing about it "clicked" back then, it doesn't make sense to "click" two years later.

The front wing they brought to Monaco was simply a natural development plan after their initial gimmicky front wing did not work as they intended, which leaves the "eureka" culprit to be something else.

[stewie325]

Just looking back on this year with all the flex wings saga, I went and did a little research on Mercedes cars on this new era (2022-2024). People took these words from the team, about something clicking and finally making sense for them and because there was a lot of attention on front wings flexing at the time, everyone just made the assumption that this silver bullet that somehow gave Mercedes a lot of performance in the midseason, was indeed the flexing front wing.

I never believed for a moment that a flexing front wing could be the differentiating factor between a car that struggles and a car that fights for wins. It could help a little with consistency when you're already at the top, but it has never been the "secret" to actually being at the top. Not in previous eras and I don't believe that it changed in this era as well.

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :
...

It may have been flexing then, but the method of flexing is quite different.

Compare with this video from Canada 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2qMjryAMao

In 2022 under normal conditions, the entire wing is flush and under flex the outside part moves lower compared to the middle.

In 2024, when flexing, the opposite happens. There is a disconnect to begin with, and the wing becomes flush under flex.

Seeing this comparison also reminds me Mercedes brought huge barn-door wings in 2022, much bigger than other cars.

[Emag]

Just looking back on this year with all the flex wings saga, I went and did a little research on Mercedes cars on this new era (2022-2024). People took these words from the team, about something clicking and finally making sense for them and because there was a lot of attention on front wings flexing at the time, everyone just made the assumption that this silver bullet that somehow gave Mercedes a lot of performance in the midseason, was indeed the flexing front wing.

I never believed for a moment that a flexing front wing could be the differentiating factor between a car that struggles and a car that fights for wins. It could help a little with consistency when you're already at the top, but it has never been the "secret" to actually being at the top. Not in previous eras and I don't believe that it changed in this era as well.

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :
...

It may have been flexing then, but the method of flexing is quite different.

Compare with this video from Canada 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2qMjryAMao

In 2022 under normal conditions, the entire wing is flush and under flex the outside part moves lower compared to the middle.

In 2024, when flexing, the opposite happens. There is a disconnect to begin with, and the wing becomes flush under flex.

Seeing this comparison also reminds me Mercedes brought huge barn-door wings in 2022, much bigger than other cars.

That is just down to flap design and arrangement. You won’t be able to directly compare the movement because the front wings are different.

As for the flexing, it is essentially the same thing that’s happening, with the only difference being the initial and “final” position of the uppermost flap in relation to the inboard static section.

[CMSMJ1]

All of this flexing talk needs to go to the Flexi thread

There is a lack of on topic about it.

[PlatinumZealot]

Just looking back on this year with all the flex wings saga, I went and did a little research on Mercedes cars on this new era (2022-2024). People took these words from the team, about something clicking and finally making sense for them and because there was a lot of attention on front wings flexing at the time, everyone just made the assumption that this silver bullet that somehow gave Mercedes a lot of performance in the midseason, was indeed the flexing front wing.

I never believed for a moment that a flexing front wing could be the differentiating factor between a car that struggles and a car that fights for wins. It could help a little with consistency when you're already at the top, but it has never been the "secret" to actually being at the top. Not in previous eras and I don't believe that it changed in this era as well.

And sure enough, Mercedes was already utilizing the flexing front wings to quite an extreme degree I would say, since back in 2022 :

https://i.imgur.com/lmwyxVy.png

It was very hard to find nose cam footage of this car for some reason, but I was certain that they must have had it back then just judging by how much angle there was on that front wing back in 2022 and I wanted to confirm those suspicions. Finally after some browsing, I came across this video.

It's therefore logical to conclude that the flexing front wing was not a major factor in Mercedes' upturn in performance during the mid-season. Then that begs the question on what else could it have been?

Can't really know for sure, but I suspect their gimmick front wing with which they started the season has to do something with it. They kept minimizing its effect until they got rid of it altogether at Monaco. In my opinion, this was one of those ideas that worked well theoretically under the ideal wind tunnel conditions, but it never translated to on-track performance due to the many more variables that are introduced on a real racing scenario.

Other than that, I genuinely believe the "eureka" moment was more setup-related than a magical new part they put on the car that suddenly fixed everything. They were perhaps going about it the wrong way on prioritizing certain balance properties which might have been successful for them on the previous era, but it did not translate on these ground effect cars. It's inline with the fingerprint of their struggles, because they have tended to vary quite a bit from track to track. These old setup markers perhaps worked better at some tracks and worse at others and they were at a loss to explain why that was happening.

Once they found the right window, they probably had to re-adapt their simulation software to suggest the right setup from track to track, however I do think they were also flattered a bit by the run of cold-weather races which their car seems to love the most out of the top 4. They haven't been able to replicate race-winning performance on any hot-weather track.

Nevertheless, It does seem like they were still prioritizing the wrong things when it comes to the development path / plan, because the floor they brought at Spa has introduced a storm of new headaches.

There was a eureka moment with the front wing, but I agree that it was not only one.

According to my own analysis for 2024 the performance was jump was found when they changed the relative sizes of the main plane and second plane on the front wing, and position of the adjacent outboard bleed off area between the two. This shifted the edge vortex forward and wider, and the centre of the pressure of the car and character of the front wheel wake.

After that it was the floor and setup.

[Sevach]

Mercedes were the leaders in this area in 2021 already. Not sure how could anyone miss that. Of course that wasn't invented by Mclaren. Front and rear wings were flexing significantly on some cars before 2021. Mclaren only pushed this to extreme this year, front wing especially.

The early season wing that tried to recreate "Y-250" also flexed a ton.
That wing design may have been causing instabilities and balance issues for Mercedes, but not because it didn't flex enough honestly.

[r85]

Mercedes were the leaders in this area in 2021 already. Not sure how could anyone miss that. Of course that wasn't invented by Mclaren. Front and rear wings were flexing significantly on some cars before 2021. Mclaren only pushed this to extreme this year, front wing especially.

The early season wing that tried to recreate "Y-250" also flexed a ton.
That wing design may have been causing instabilities and balance issues for Mercedes, but not because it didn't flex enough honestly.

Yeah apparently the wing was too powerful at high speed causing oversteer and really weak at low speeds leading to understeer. Perhaps more flexing would limit the balance issues and put Mercedes on a different path, but who knows how that would've gone though...

[K1Plus]

Mercedes were the leaders in this area in 2021 already. Not sure how could anyone miss that. Of course that wasn't invented by Mclaren. Front and rear wings were flexing significantly on some cars before 2021. Mclaren only pushed this to extreme this year, front wing especially.

The early season wing that tried to recreate "Y-250" also flexed a ton.
That wing design may have been causing instabilities and balance issues for Mercedes, but not because it didn't flex enough honestly.

Yeah apparently the wing was too powerful at high speed causing oversteer and really weak at low speeds leading to understeer. Perhaps more flexing would limit the balance issues and put Mercedes on a different path, but who knows how that would've gone though...

So what you're saying could be meant as the wing is too advanced and too complex...
Well, nothing new out of the ordinary for Mercedes, we know they like doing things on their own.