2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Farnborough]

Reviews appear to miss how ineffective Martin Whitmarsh was while at Mclaren and recently of AM !

Also Sam Micheal through Williams and then to McLaren after that seem like nice people on personal level, but ineffective in leading, to some considerable standard.

Everyone has an opinion of RD and all hugely polarized, but ultimate success .... yup.

[Tommy Cookers]

Without Ron Dennis there would have been no Mclaren. The were a small also ran before he got stuck in with Project 4

well ....
1974 WDC Mr Fittipaldi and WCC
1976 WDC Mr Hunt
weren't also-rans

[Emag]

You could say that for F1, but McLaren was pretty successful in canam racing while Bruce was still alive. Like everything nice, it took some time for them to replicate that success in F1. And actually they started winning quite soon after they joined.

Ron is etched in McLaren’s history but just looking back at the early 2010s and the years leading up to the hybrid era, there were some pretty wild things going on and there are some outlandish comments that were made. The “jewel” that was the Honda power unit according to him and basically throwing ash to the eyes of everyone with lies as if people couldn’t just see how badly things were going at McLaren.

He liked to micromanage way too much. One person could not be responsible for everything in the growing complex world that F1 was becoming.

You also need to let people go when things go south. If Zak hadn’t “kicked” James Key out, McLaren wouldn’t be in the position they are right now.

[Big Tea]

Without Ron Dennis there would have been no Mclaren. The were a small also ran before he got stuck in with Project 4

well ....
1974 WDC Mr Fittipaldi and WCC
1976 WDC Mr Hunt
weren't also-rans

Hesketh did not stay on the scene long though, so where they would have gone then is unsure to say the least.

[CjC]

Since Ron Dennis has come up, I enjoyed watching this interview with him, not sure if it’s already been shared…

[ispano6]

Reviews appear to miss how ineffective Martin Whitmarsh was while at Mclaren and recently of AM !

...

Strange, Adrian Newey recently praised Martin Whitmarsh for his work on establishing the new AMR campus, which includes the new wind tunnel. Patience, it takes time!

[Farnborough]

Reviews appear to miss how ineffective Martin Whitmarsh was while at Mclaren and recently of AM !

...

Strange, Adrian Newey recently praised Martin Whitmarsh for his work on establishing the new AMR campus, which includes the new wind tunnel. Patience, it takes time!

He's also now leaving AM I understand

He seems an exceptionally decent man in personality terms .. the list of F1 team managers and men of significant influence in gaining world championships include RD, FW, JT, FB, TW, CH all I believe that may divide opinion of their management style. But indefinable success through their tenure as "controlling" each team and guiding to multiple championship.

[SilviuAgo]

Nice video with a lot of details.



On short, predicted order for the last 6 races:
COTA: McLaren, RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes
Mexico: McLaren/RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes
Brasil: McLaren, Ferrari, RedBull, Mercedes
Las Vegas: Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull
Qatar: McLaren, RedBull/Mercedes, Ferrari
AbuDhabi: McLaren/Ferrari, RedBull, Mercedes

Hope he is right )))

[Emag]

Nice video with a lot of details.



On short, predicted order for the last 6 races:
COTA: McLaren, RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes
Mexico: McLaren/RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes
Brasil: McLaren, Ferrari, RedBull, Mercedes
Las Vegas: Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull
Qatar: McLaren, RedBull/Mercedes, Ferrari
AbuDhabi: McLaren/Ferrari, RedBull, Mercedes

Hope he is right )))

We are in a bit of a draught when it comes to racing so I understand why someone would put this out right now, but this is actually a relatively useless prediction to make at the moment.

The top 4 are all bringing rather important upgrades in Austin (except maybe Ferrari, which should have a smaller one considering how big their Monza upgrade was), so the competitive picture may change yet again. Everyone apart from McLaren has been struggling with one thing or another, so if they rectify the issues, or even bring further performance on top of rectifications, we may go back to a situation where things become unclear again when it comes to the pecking order.

[BMMR61]

So if you want to examine what makes top teams and keeps them there you should observe the reverse - what led to their downfall. McLaren through the 1970s were still living on the spirit instilled by Bruce McLaren who was one of the great leaders, even though largely forgotten today, other than the name. He was part driver, part engineer, part (early) corporate shmoozer, and with a personality that drew others to a common cause. Innovation was there from the beginning even accounting for the simplicity of F1 of the time. Their demise arguably came from the slow dissolution of Bruce's absence not being replaced by a strong leader or the development of such a leader. Enter Ron Dennis.

RD gathered some great engineering talent starting with John Barnard and the first composite "tub". Gordon Murray followed before the next big chance, Adrian Newey. This was where RD's controlling personality type became, in effect, a defect, and Adrian left just as McLaren were looking really strong. To my mind there haven't been singular strong leaders in McLaren since. Zak has been an orchestra leader who has to a greater degree developed talent from within. Of course there have been new recruits but if you view the orbit of Andrea Stella since he joined nearly ten years ago, he has developed into the on the ground leader, and what an incredible job he is doing. Much of this is opinion, though not controversial.

Highly likely we are seeing the beginning of the demise of Red Bull, and the first domino in this being the passing of Dietrich leading to the autocracy of CH and the tug of war with Marko. Months ago I was quick to discount of the blowhard Jos saying the team was imploding, now it appears he was right and maybe his comments undermining effect have been, and will be, significant in their rapid demise.

[Farnborough]

So if you want to examine what makes top teams and keeps them there you should observe the reverse - what led to their downfall. McLaren through the 1970s were still living on the spirit instilled by Bruce McLaren who was one of the great leaders, even though largely forgotten today, other than the name. He was part driver, part engineer, part (early) corporate shmoozer, and with a personality that drew others to a common cause. Innovation was there from the beginning even accounting for the simplicity of F1 of the time. Their demise arguably came from the slow dissolution of Bruce's absence not being replaced by a strong leader or the development of such a leader. Enter Ron Dennis.

RD gathered some great engineering talent starting with John Barnard and the first composite "tub". Gordon Murray followed before the next big chance, Adrian Newey. This was where RD's controlling personality type became, in effect, a defect, and Adrian left just as McLaren were looking really strong. To my mind there haven't been singular strong leaders in McLaren since. Zak has been an orchestra leader who has to a greater degree developed talent from within. Of course there have been new recruits but if you view the orbit of Andrea Stella since he joined nearly ten years ago, he has developed into the on the ground leader, and what an incredible job he is doing. Much of this is opinion, though not controversial.

Highly likely we are seeing the beginning of the demise of Red Bull, and the first domino in this being the passing of Dietrich leading to the autocracy of CH and the tug of war with Marko. Months ago I was quick to discount of the blowhard Jos saying the team was imploding, now it appears he was right and maybe his comments undermining effect have been, and will be, significant in their rapid demise.

There's clearly some that can "devine" the direction, many that can't in reality. The successful often dividing opinion.

Interestingly (particularly in this thread) I recently met someone that was personal friends with a Mr & Mrs Mclaren. At a small regular car meet, nearest to the old Tyrrell factory, but with many around here that have worked within teams, the drive out there for me can pass factories of John Cooper, Jack Brabham, McLaren, Tyrrell, Ralt (Ron Tauranac) of motor racing history.
Colin Chapman being another leader too.

There's clearly significant overall,direction within McLaren currently, a very welcome return to serious competitive status.

I always feel that a slowly improving trajectory, that rarely slips backwards, ultimately brings far more in depth capabilities being established throughout the entire operation.

[mwillems]

We were 3rd,4th,5th,4th in the previous 4 constructors. The development of the previous 18 months is a rapidly improving trajectory having been consistently fighting in the midfield and not really progressing after the dismal Honda years, until last years Austria update.

[BMMR61]

We were 3rd,4th,5th,4th in the previous 4 constructors. The development of the previous 18 months is a rapidly improving trajectory having been consistently fighting in the midfield and not really progressing after the dismal Honda years, until last years Austria update.

Some people need to be reminded of this when they criticise the team. The progression shows what is possible in engineering terms as well as how difficult it is to do so. 6th, 4th, 3rd , 4th, 5th, 4th from the first Renault year (2018) to last year revealed the weaknesses, the fall to 4th and 5th in 2021 and 2022 put the recovery of the previous years in question. Throughout the earlier recovery was an inconsistency showing they had not yet fully understood their platform. The wind tunnel and the removal of one of the senior engineering staff has proved part of the most recent return to glory days. I haven't seen it discussed but Lando's Austrian clash with Max is the team's only DNF this year and the unfortunate clash with Sainz at Miami the only other time McLaren didn't score points.

[mwillems]

We were 3rd,4th,5th,4th in the previous 4 constructors. The development of the previous 18 months is a rapidly improving trajectory having been consistently fighting in the midfield and not really progressing after the dismal Honda years, until last years Austria update.

Some people need to be reminded of this when they criticise the team. The progression shows what is possible in engineering terms as well as how difficult it is to do so. 6th, 4th, 3rd , 4th, 5th, 4th from the first Renault year (2018) to last year revealed the weaknesses, the fall to 4th and 5th in 2021 and 2022 put the recovery of the previous years in question. Throughout the earlier recovery was an inconsistency showing they had not yet fully understood their platform. The wind tunnel and the removal of one of the senior engineering staff has proved part of the most recent return to glory days. I haven't seen it discussed but Lando's Austrian clash with Max is the team's only DNF this year and the unfortunate clash with Sainz at Miami the only other time McLaren didn't score points.

Nobody has questioned the quality of the car or the drivers ability to bring the car home, only some of the strategy and driving. Just because we had a sh*t car 8 years ago has nothing to do with what the team are doing this year. fighting at the front of midfield for a few years doesn't mean you forget when is the right time to pit a driver or how to manage your first corner and first lap.

[_cerber1]

Mod edit: This post and a few answers below, were moved here from the car thread.