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As I am not a steward I have no idea what you have to do to consider cheating. Technically with a loophole anything illegal can be considered to have not enough proof. If you think of it Mclaren was never proven to have used the copied dossier during the Spygate and back then taking information from one team to the other was normal. However that didnt stop Mr. Mosley in almost making a whole team extinct. Benetton while they havent been punished for Option 13, they did get punished regarding the rig. I think its up to the FIA to stop being wussies and start acting like an organisation with rules otherwise they might as well remove every rule and its free for all.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑18 Oct 2024, 10:30It is a breach if they changed it. Problem is that no one can prove they changed it in previous races Just like Option 13 or Ferrari engine.
It is a shame but not a much you can do retroactively (maybe if someone testifies). While I agree in principle you can't punish them without proof, FIA should be able to give some sort of punishment (probably financial one) for devices that can clearly be used to cheat. The way it is currently you can cheat but you need to make sure that it is undetectable without new sensors. Once FIA adds the sensors you stop cheating.
The mental gymnastics to try to explain the last few races with the bib adjustment option is hilarious to read. McLaren has been better at the end of each stint, not just the end of the race. This is due to the balance issues of the RB which crept into their floor since '23 leading to better tyre performance at McL. Also, the stiff RB works when it is low to the ground. When it has to soften the suspension (e.g. in Singapore) the car is relatively high and it loses more df relative to other cars. Hence why early in the race the RB is relatively strong on circuits where it can drive low and hard (e.g Austria) and relatively slow when it has to soften the suspension (Singapore).FittingMechanics wrote: ↑18 Oct 2024, 10:54Yes, I think you are right. I got that wrong (it's the other way around). Due to weight, they would start lower than in qualy and slowly rise up to the qualy height.ispano6 wrote: ↑18 Oct 2024, 10:41How would McLaren end up at their quali height at the end? Does it mean they didn't go as low as possible to account for full weight and acceptable plank wear? You see, this explanation has nothing to do with what Red Bull are doing, and if anything this explanation would imply Red Bull knowingly set up the car to get slower toward the end of the race. I don't see them doing that.
Red Bull could fine tune that, perhaps starting a bit higher than they would with qualy setup full of fuel, this would put them into a better window while heavy on fuel but at the end they wouldn't be on "qualy setup" like McLaren, they would end up higher than in qualy.
This could explain the discrepancy between qualifying and final stints for Red Bull. For example in Imola, Max qualified ahead of both McLarens by a small margin, he pulled away a bit (7s or so) but at the end Norris was much faster and almost caught him. Given how close their margins were in Q3 it is a bit strange but as always, there could be a number of factors like tyres, temperature or just plain mistakes.
I am just guessing how this might work. But we have noticed that McLaren is a good final stint car this year, usually against Red Bull.
Could be. Maybe it's nothing big and Red Bull only used it to make their setup changes quicker. If that is the case great, no question marks over the season and we can continue.Cassius wrote: ↑18 Oct 2024, 11:50The mental gymnastics to try to explain the last few races with the bib adjustment option is hilarious to read. McLaren has been better at the end of each stint, not just the end of the race. This is due to the balance issues of the RB which crept into their floor since '23 leading to better tyre performance at McL. Also, the stiff RB works when it is low to the ground. When it has to soften the suspension (e.g. in Singapore) the car is relatively high and it loses more df relative to other cars. Hence why early in the race the RB is relatively strong on circuits where it can drive low and hard (e.g Austria) and relatively slow when it has to soften the suspension (Singapore).
i think that is 2025. will prob be all new livery (though usually they keep livery full reset for change in regs which would be 2026)
I'm not sure you can say that since the livery changed regularly over the years leading up to 2023. Even last year into this was quite a big change.
:Kind of weird that they had a full month to manufacture upgrades for both drivers but they only bring one.
