2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

Which car ever won a race by being a second a lap quicker in one particular stint, while being average the rest of the race?

No need to ignore Piastri being stuck behind Perez in the first stint and keeping up easily with Hamilton and Leclerc in the second, 5s from the lead the whole time

[Dunlay]

Which car ever won a race by being a second a lap quicker in one particular stint, while being average the rest of the race?

No need to ignore Piastri being stuck behind Perez in the first stint and keeping up easily with Hamilton and Leclerc in the second, 5s from the lead the whole time

Then it's the same deal with Lewis. So like for like, Merc was the faster car on the day.

[Vanja #66]

Whatever you say mate

[Quantum]

Which car ever won a race by being a second a lap quicker in one particular stint, while being average the rest of the race?

No need to ignore Piastri being stuck behind Perez in the first stint and keeping up easily with Hamilton and Leclerc in the second, 5s from the lead the whole time

Why do we need to include Piastri being stuck behind anyone? If he was quick he could've over taken.
Trying to qualify why the W15 isn't deserving of 3 race wins because X was stuck behind Y.....

[Vanja #66]

If lucking in at the right place in the right time means something is deserved, I concede it was deserved. About as deserved as Toto deserves to continue being TD

[Quantum]

If lucking in at the right place in the right time means something is deserved, I concede it was deserved. About as deserved as Toto deserves to continue being TD

Toto's a TD now?
That will be news to the actual TD, James Allison. I mean if you want to stick the boot in basics matter.

Using the skewed metrics of what is a deserved win or not, according to some made up criteria we can also say that:

Sainz winning in Oz was lucky.(Max brake issues)
Norris in Miami was lucky.(Max floor damage)
Max in Imola was lucky.(Norris "stuck" behind)
Max in Canada was lucky. (safety car)
Piastri was lucky in Hungary (team orders)
Leclerc was lucky at Monza (McLaren strategy)

And more if you fancied pedantry.

But these made up metrics dont apply to other teams. Only to Merc....

[Lasssept]

Sainz winning in Oz was lucky.(Max brake issues)
Norris in Miami was lucky.(Max floor damage)
Max in Imola was lucky.(Norris "stuck" behind)
Max in Canada was lucky. (safety car)
Piastri was lucky in Hungary (team orders)
Leclerc was lucky at Monza (McLaren strategy)

+
Leclerc in Monaco (race without pit stops)

[PlatinumZealot]

The car is trash.

The traces show it cannot brake as hard as the previous spec and Lewis just not adjusting to that.

I'm just really glad that George didn't go away with too many points. He was sixth was it?

It's important that team LH finishes in front of George this season and by enough that you don't get this points in three years crap that they did form Jenson Button.

[OverheatedTurbo]

The team has a year gap in terms of GE knowledge. The struggling was expected. You guys need to relax.

[Vanja #66]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Q

[Lasssept]

Andrew Shovlin post race:

..As a team we have underachieved across the weekend and are under no illusions that we need to do better. The update kit has shown some promise, but we've not had a single clean session, and we'll leave here not knowing what we could have done if we'd started near the front with a car in our latest aero specification. We will look to answer that question next weekend in Mexico.

https://x.com/fiagirly/status/1848123565339500551

[Dunlay]

The car is trash.

The traces show it cannot brake as hard as the previous spec and Lewis just not adjusting to that.

I'm just really glad that George didn't go away with too many points. He was sixth was it?

It's important that team LH finishes in front of George this season and by enough that you don't get this points in three years crap that they did form Jenson Button.

I thought this is Mercedes team thread, not Team LH thread! Any driver that scores is a good thing for the team. They have problems at hand to sort out, no doubt. I don't think anyone in Mercedes or Mercedes team fans cares who finishes ahead of who as that is least of the problems currently. The heartening thing this weekend was how cordial both drivers and both garages were. Lewis offered his side of the upgraded parts to George to rebuild his crashed car and how much George rues when Lewis faces some problems that puts him behind. That should be the model for fans to follow. It's a shame we don't see that on this forum.

[Quantum]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Q

I sleep like a baby, V
As typified by not making up new, fanciful definitions of what merits a win.

[Luscion]

Looks like either Lewis or George are gonna be running the old spec car this week, George damaged the new floor and it wont be ready until Brazil. Toto saying he's not sure if Lewis will want to run the new package

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10665399/

[214270]

If you intend to patronize my post, ask yourselves the question - "why are members (including me) here, in an internet forum called F1-technical" ? You will have your answer.
We are not here because we are experts, it's because we are trying to bounce our layman-enthusiast ideas with each other, to satiate our hunger to learn and discuss more about the 'machine' aspect of the sport.

As to your question :
Of course Mercedes know this, the drivers know this... their fundamental problem is they are too sensitive w.r.t tyre temperature as regards the car's grip balance. Whatever 'setup' they had optimized for 35C track temp, is not just becoming 'sub-optimal' (like it does for other teams) if the track temp rises to 40C, it's becoming undrivable. Their car's aero grip isn't working harmoniously with mechanical grip. Everyone knows this. Probably you don't. And the reason the issue strikes in 'of all the high speed corners, that's the one place such a simle issue strikes' is because T19 is the place where both steering angle and cornering speed are both together super-high.

For all of your explanation, trying to simplify the problem, the track temperature was 36C throughout Q3. Watch live timing replay on F1 app. George did two attempts in Q3, one where there was no such problem and he sets a time and the other when he crashed, despite track temps being the same. Guess what, the track temp was 35C in Sprint qualifying when that car was flying. Some basic research would help. It's better not to try and justify the oversimplification by using vague explanations. What happened in that particular incident is very peculiar and there must be far more intricate reason for it. That car is quite unpredictable and little changes are causing major behavioral issues. So I wouldn't try to sound like I know exactly why it happened, because I don't and I don't think most people know either.

The exact same thing as Russel's Q3 happened with Hamilton in the race, with a full tank of fuel.
Guess what the reason is ?

'oversteery balance' for a high speed corner.

Mercedes knows this, F1 viewers know this. It's got to do with tyre temps. Mercedes struggles when tyre temps go high on a hot track, their car is superb on cold tracks. That was the point I was making, I wasn't referring to the 35C or 40C as exact values in my previous post, I didn't intend to (forgot to phrase it as "say, the car is optimized for 35C...").

But why exactly is that happening ? thats the million $ question - the dark art of tyre 'optimal window'.

It’s actually more likely the kerb riding/small bumps on approach caused some sort of stall. HAM even offered this as a possible explanation. The platform control needs more work probably or the floor maybe the culprit, either way it looks like the interplay between the two is the likely issue.