Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[siskue2005]

Shame on Nelsinho... He is using his statement of apology as an advertisement to get back into F1!

Your sins may be forgiven, but you pay a price for doing what you have done - and that will be never to race in F1 again.

Equally shameful is the verdict... I don't even want to talk about it.

i dont know why some people throw sh1t at NP.jr this much?!
yes he deserves it but, not to the extent you guys are doing now
In a case of Murder the one motivates to do the dead gets More punishment than the one who did it

[jon-mullen]

It's a pretty easy point to make. Nelson's right foot was on the gas, Nelson's left foot was on the brake, Nelson's hands were on the wheel and Flavio was on the wall. Nelson could've finished the race (maybe), gotten fired, and gone to the FIA, but that's not what he did.

If the FIA really gave a damn about safety they'd punish the person who willingly put people's lives in danger. The WMSC article mentions Piquet 6 times and Briatore 9 times. So what was all this really about?

[Raptor22]

the FIA seems to have dished out a fair punishment. this is not a court of law.

the only aspect of the punishment that I think is inconsistent is in NOT FINING Renault F1. CLealry the FIA took intoi account the global economic environment.

As for Piquet jnr, I think he deserves a 2nd chance. Its tough being a young driver on the back foot and then being faced with a career making or breaking decision. the boss says crash so what do I do. It's easy to judge from the granstand but there is a lot less clarity when your career is on the line and the person that influences that is one of the biggest thugs in the history of the sport.
Good that the FIA did not impose any sanction on Piquet jnr, we need to move away from a stupid culture of shooting the whistleblower.

As for Briatore and Symmonds, good riddance to old ****

[casper]

Nelsindo, Alonso, and Renault are cheaters. FIA should have permanently banned them in F1 for life together with Briatore.

[tarzoon]

As for Piquet jnr, I think he deserves a 2nd chance. Its tough being a young driver on the back foot and then being faced with a career making or breaking decision. the boss says crash so what do I do. It's easy to judge from the granstand but there is a lot less clarity when your career is on the line and the person that influences that is one of the biggest thugs in the history of the sport.
Good that the FIA did not impose any sanction on Piquet jnr, we need to move away from a stupid culture of shooting the whistleblower.

NPjr would deserve a second change (actually, he would still be there) if:

1. he was a good pilot. But in reality he's just a daddy-with-cash-to-spend invention.

2. he had character. This whole thing is (to me) aggravated by the fact that daddy-the-rock-star knew about it and didn't discourage him. Old and wise, they say!

3. He says bye bye daddy and proves himself to be fast and competitive.

4. He starts bullying Alonso

[andartop]

Just a few thoughts on all this:

1. It seems bad publicity does indeed sell a lot. This is now one of the longest threads in general chat for the whole 2009 season. The other "hot" topics have been USF1, and Massa's accident. I only wish we had as many pages with pics of pit-babes!

2. Wasn't PS granted immunity as well? If so, how come he ended up with this 5-year ban?

3. The whole McLaren "Spygate" thing was indeed completely different: they were running bloody tests based on the stolen data, how could the whole team not have known? Still, it was lying about it that got them in trouble. Repeatedly. Over a looong period of time. Then, they only went on to do exactly the same with the "Liegate". I've said this before, and I'll say it again. It's ok to cheat in F1, as long as you don't get caught. If you do, at least have the balls not to lie about it. Renault learned McLaren's lesson.

PS. Did McLaren ever pay 100 mil fine, or was it just about half of that in the end?

4. With all said and done, am I the only one who thinks the whole issue is not really that big a deal? I mean, it's not like Renault won the Championship with that victory. I'm not saying they did a good thing, I guess I'm just starting to get bored of F1 scandals..

[safeaschuck]

Doesn't make any diffeence I know but I would like to add my name to the list of people who are very dissatisfied with the outcome of this investigation.

No Fine,
No Ban,
No retrospective ammendment of the result of a race proven to be fixed??? WTF. The result stands for all time, very bad form.
No punisment for Alonso? (O.K. just me being vindictive maybe but COME ON, he was completly unaware? Briatore's golden boy out of the loop? Bullshit. He knew before Ron Dennis about the inner workings of spygate, if there's cheating going on Alonso will be in on it )
Very little in the way of bad P.R. coming from the FIA when considering the level of witchunting that went on with Hamilton. All their press releases on the subject were VERY restrained.

Suspended sentence??? Renault have already compromised safety since this incident with Alonso's continuing with unfastened wheel which subseqently departed his vehicle, there is a precedent if any one investigating was interested.

Renaut came forward and co-operated, and apologised? how does lanching a lawsuit against the party bringing the evidence to light for blackmail and defamation count as coming forward. They were clearly caught out, shown to be guilty by the telemetry leaving almost no doubt prior to any hearing, they were backed into a corner by the evidence yet allowed time by the FIA to prepare a suitable response to mitigate any punishment before any ruling was made.
As soon as the evidence came to light an annoucement should have been made by the FIA. Not allow time for dismissals, glad handing, grovelling and pocket stuffing by Renault.

Piquet should be racing for no drivers points for at least the next season maybe two, construtors points should still count.

The FIA, Does it stand for 'French In Allignment' or perhaps 'Formula In Anarchy'

If I could write '---' a thousand times down this page it would barely contain the beginings of my contempt for the organising body of this sport. At the very least in cases of disciplinary proceedings a truly independant body is required.

Now that anyone managed by Briatore will be denied superlicence renewal does this mean the drivers involved? can break their contract with Flavio? What will that cost them? Do they simply find a new manager during the remainder of the season or will they be denied renewal regardless?

[siskue2005]

Just a few thoughts on all this:

2. Wasn't PS granted immunity as well? If so, how come he ended up with this 5-year ban?

He didnt take it
Granted Immunity if he tell everything to FIA, but he didnot so he got the ban

[siskue2005]

As for Piquet jnr, I think he deserves a 2nd chance. Its tough being a young driver on the back foot and then being faced with a career making or breaking decision. the boss says crash so what do I do. It's easy to judge from the granstand but there is a lot less clarity when your career is on the line and the person that influences that is one of the biggest thugs in the history of the sport.
Good that the FIA did not impose any sanction on Piquet jnr, we need to move away from a stupid culture of shooting the whistleblower.

2. he had character. This whole thing is (to me) aggravated by the fact that daddy-the-rock-star knew about it and didn't discourage him. Old and wise, they say!

NP Sr. only knew about the events after it happened
and he did report to Whiting at that time, But Whiting and Max said without any proof they cannot move forward and it got stalled then
Only now NP Jr. had the balls to confess

[Ray]

Only now NP Jr. had the balls to confess

But he didn't have to the balls to stand up and do what's right and refuse to crash the car intentionally. It would have done his career much more than to do it, cry foul afterwards and point fingers telling everyone someone else made him do it. A bad decision is a bad decision, under pressure or threat doesn't matter. He should have stood up, tol Flavio to stuff it and taken his licks that way, instead he commits an act and says it's not his fault because someone told him to do it. My ass. He should've been banned like Flavio and Pat. Anyone who thinks different has their head screwed on backwards, or like Junior has zero integrity.

[ISLAMATRON]

It's a pretty easy point to make. Nelson's right foot was on the gas, Nelson's left foot was on the brake, Nelson's hands were on the wheel and Flavio was on the wall. Nelson could've finished the race (maybe), gotten fired, and gone to the FIA, but that's not what he did.

If the FIA really gave a damn about safety they'd punish the person who willingly put people's lives in danger. The WMSC article mentions Piquet 6 times and Briatore 9 times. So what was all this really about?

Flav could always find a driver to do his crashing, especially since he is both Team Manager and driver manager. Nelson is just 1 of many young drivers who under the circumstances would have collapsed under the pressure.

The Police always give the assassin some form of immunity to give up the information on who hired them.

[timbo]

Flav could always find a driver to do his crashing, especially since he is both Team Manager and driver manager. Nelson is just 1 of many young drivers who under the circumstances would have collapsed under the pressure.

Really? Do you think Webber would do it?
And don't underestimate Nelsinho's talents. I think he has perfect crashing technique! A rare driver these days can match him on that.

The Police always give the assassin some form of immunity to give up the information on who hired them.

Some sort or complete? I'd say if the choice was forever vs. 5-year ban from sports that could be qualified as "some sort".
Yeah, and don't you think Pat's refusal to take immunity is speaking of that he doesn't consider himself guilty?

[vall]

Just a few thoughts on all this:

2. Wasn't PS granted immunity as well? If so, how come he ended up with this 5-year ban?

He didnt take it
Granted Immunity if he tell everything to FIA, but he didnot so he got the ban

(i) to Mr. Symonds' acceptance that he took part in the conspiracy; and (ii) to his communication to the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council that it was to his "eternal regret and shame" that he participated in the conspiracy.

That's quite strange, isn't it? He confessed, but did not the the immunity?

[WhiteBlue]

A predictable result and a good solution in my view.

Renault fired Briatore and Symmonds before the hearing and accepted the men had done the crime. That was clever thinking and the natural thing to do for a corporation with paid managers. They get away with a large contribution to the safety campaign which they apparently negotiated prior to the hearing. So they loose this money but it is a second class punishment like social work. In fairness one has to say that the FIA also let McLaren go on probation until they were screwed in the second hearing by Alonso's blackmail action.

Briatore (Flabby) has reached the end of the road in public sports and can now go on and follow his true vocation, being a pimp in a whore house rather than in F1. It is a very good outcome because he was the guy at who's desk the buck stopps. Even if Symmonds cooked up most of this, his responsibility would have required him to stop this immediately when he learned of it. Good riddance Flavio enjoy all your money earned with cheating. The glory is gone forever.

Symmonds refused the amnesty too long and waited with his confession until Renault fired him. Bad luck for him, but also a good outcome. Who knows what else he has cooked up with Briatore's protection. We will probably not see him back in racing when his 5 years are over.

Nelson Picquet is toast as a driver and in motor racing. He should probably relocate to the south pole to avoid retribution by engry Brazilian Massa fans. I understand Brazil isn't a particularly safe place to begin with, but with such an ape on his neck his life will be punishment enough.

Alonso came out of this smelling like roses just as he did from Stepneygate. He needs to be very carefull. One wrong step and the many people he has pissed off will love to blow the whistle on him in return.

Max and Bernie got a golden opportunity to return a favor in the FOTA/FIA/FOM pissing contest and went for it with a gusto. I don't blame them. He who lives with the sword dies with it. Now the last men standing are Bernie - who will simply die one day - and Montezemolo because he never takes any direct action. He will probably retire in peace in some years.

[siskue2005]

Just a few thoughts on all this:

2. Wasn't PS granted immunity as well? If so, how come he ended up with this 5-year ban?

He didnt take it
Granted Immunity if he tell everything to FIA, but he didnot so he got the ban

(i) to Mr. Symonds' acceptance that he took part in the conspiracy; and (ii) to his communication to the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council that it was to his "eternal regret and shame" that he participated in the conspiracy.

That's quite strange, isn't it? He confessed, but did not the the immunity?

its confession by him in the meeting
FIA offered immunity IF Pat reveal all the secrets and all the people involved in the crash PRIOR to the WMSC meeting and before Renault fired him
Obviously he didnot want to do it as he might reveal some other Top Driver/Engineer's name??!!