:):)))))
Ferrari have had the fastest car at a very small handful of tracks this year. Red Bull dominated through China, and then Mclaren have had the fastest car at the large majority of tracks since. Even in Monaco, Piastri was super close to Leclerc in qualifying and the race, and I dont think it takes some huge leap to suggest Leclerc made the difference in the end.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 13:34Leclerc and Ferrari bottled it after Monaco.
It is clear they had fastest car, especially since Monza.
McLaren and Norris have clearly underperformed their car. The results would be what Verstappen and Red Bull got in 2022/2023 if they were more competent. This is just the objectively correct thing to say. Anything else is simply deflecting away from the failure of the team.Seanspeed wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 18:28Ferrari have had the fastest car at a very small handful of tracks this year. Red Bull dominated through China, and then Mclaren have had the fastest car at the large majority of tracks since. Even in Monaco, Piastri was super close to Leclerc in qualifying and the race, and I dont think it takes some huge leap to suggest Leclerc made the difference in the end.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 13:34Leclerc and Ferrari bottled it after Monaco.
It is clear they had fastest car, especially since Monza.
Ferrari did mess up badly with their Barcelona package(and specifically, the new floor), which derailed the whole middle chunk of the season. But even after rectifying it, it's still not accurate to say they've been fastest since Monza. Mclaren were arguably faster in Monza, they just messed up on strategy. Mclaren were pretty clearly fastest in Singapore as well. And looked pretty competitive in qualifying at Austin, but for Norris' mistake for Sprint quali.
This narrative that Ferrari have somehow had the car to beat since Monza is quite obviously false. This is just trying to deflect from the mistakes and underperformance of Mclaren and Norris, who are entirely to blame for the current championship predicament. There's still opportunity to rectify things, but if Verstappen still wins in the end, Mclaren+Norris will have 100% blown it.
I agree with much of your points but with the proviso that the margins are so small as to make your final point an exaggeration.Seanspeed wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 18:28Ferrari have had the fastest car at a very small handful of tracks this year. Red Bull dominated through China, and then Mclaren have had the fastest car at the large majority of tracks since. Even in Monaco, Piastri was super close to Leclerc in qualifying and the race, and I dont think it takes some huge leap to suggest Leclerc made the difference in the end.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 13:34Leclerc and Ferrari bottled it after Monaco.
It is clear they had fastest car, especially since Monza.
Ferrari did mess up badly with their Barcelona package(and specifically, the new floor), which derailed the whole middle chunk of the season. But even after rectifying it, it's still not accurate to say they've been fastest since Monza. Mclaren were arguably faster in Monza, they just messed up on strategy. Mclaren were pretty clearly fastest in Singapore as well. And looked pretty competitive in qualifying at Austin, but for Norris' mistake for Sprint quali.
This narrative that Ferrari have somehow had the car to beat since Monza is quite obviously false. This is just trying to deflect from the mistakes and underperformance of Mclaren and Norris, who are entirely to blame for the current championship predicament. There's still opportunity to rectify things, but if Verstappen still wins in the end, Mclaren+Norris will have 100% blown it.
The problem with people like you is that you consider Verstappen a god-tier driver. Whenever he wins by a large margin, it's not the car, it's all on Max's skills and you use a washed up second-tier midfield driver (Perez) as a benchmark for proof of that. Meanwhile Lando is teammates with a driver which is getting (perhaps unwarranted) praise everywhere, yet when Lando beats him by a country-mile to win dominant races, it's all on the car, Lando deserves absolutely no credit in your eyes.f1isgood wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 18:55McLaren and Norris have clearly underperformed their car. The results would be what Verstappen and Red Bull got in 2022/2023 if they were more competent. This is just the objectively correct thing to say. Anything else is simply deflecting away from the failure of the team.Seanspeed wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 18:28Ferrari have had the fastest car at a very small handful of tracks this year. Red Bull dominated through China, and then Mclaren have had the fastest car at the large majority of tracks since. Even in Monaco, Piastri was super close to Leclerc in qualifying and the race, and I dont think it takes some huge leap to suggest Leclerc made the difference in the end.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 13:34
Leclerc and Ferrari bottled it after Monaco.
It is clear they had fastest car, especially since Monza.
Ferrari did mess up badly with their Barcelona package(and specifically, the new floor), which derailed the whole middle chunk of the season. But even after rectifying it, it's still not accurate to say they've been fastest since Monza. Mclaren were arguably faster in Monza, they just messed up on strategy. Mclaren were pretty clearly fastest in Singapore as well. And looked pretty competitive in qualifying at Austin, but for Norris' mistake for Sprint quali.
This narrative that Ferrari have somehow had the car to beat since Monza is quite obviously false. This is just trying to deflect from the mistakes and underperformance of Mclaren and Norris, who are entirely to blame for the current championship predicament. There's still opportunity to rectify things, but if Verstappen still wins in the end, Mclaren+Norris will have 100% blown it.
You've never been more right. I'd still like to see Norris start to look like he's not "taking a pocketknife to a gunfight" in future battles with Max and I would nuance that with the fact Max is prepared to take measures that are legal but arguably unsporting.Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 19:08Mclaren has never had a car like Red Bull had in 2022 and 2023. When that happens and if Norris still fails we can claim that they both failed.
Yes and to be fair, it's dangerous ground to go to another site like this with the potential you haven't been aware of the depth of knowledge of what a team has been doing. We probably should have a welcoming stance on the proviso they haven't come along to antagonise.FittingMechanics wrote: ↑26 Oct 2024, 19:42Ferrari fan and Red Bull fan going out of their way to debate on a McLaren topic how McLaren had a dominant car?
Ferrari does look good. I think Norris looked good as well, if he had a Piastri S3 he would have been P1 after his fast lap and that lap was compromised because he aborted his first run.
