2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[zibby43]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10668840/

Russell saying the W15 is the most inconsistent car they've had in a long time, also apparently the floors their bringing to Brazil are a slightly modified version of the one Lewis used in COTA/Mexico

That’s consistent with what I posted from Toto above regarding new specs for both cars this weekend.

[Luscion]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10668840/

Russell saying the W15 is the most inconsistent car they've had in a long time, also apparently the floors their bringing to Brazil are a slightly modified version of the one Lewis used in COTA/Mexico

That’s consistent with what I posted from Toto above regarding new specs for both cars this weekend.

ah, missed that

[SKYnRacing24]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10668840/

Russell saying the W15 is the most inconsistent car they've had in a long time, also apparently the floors their bringing to Brazil are a slightly modified version of the one Lewis used in COTA/Mexico

Cheers for doing gods work as usual Luscion. To the bolded...i mean i know a few of us have been beating a dead horse but having the actual driver confirm it is as bleak as it gets. We are 4 races from home and they are still experimenting....and on a sprint weekend. Even though i will be keeping a eye on Lewis's ferrari stint. Merc's 2025 will be very interesting due to the fact the W16 will have characteristics of this years car which could be even more of a headache with Kimi in the other car. I see the car being hit and miss with glimpses of speed but falling off even worse because of the 26 reg change. Worrying times for sure.

Was the W15 completely Alisons or did it have Mike Elliot's dna ?

[Luscion]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10668840/

Russell saying the W15 is the most inconsistent car they've had in a long time, also apparently the floors their bringing to Brazil are a slightly modified version of the one Lewis used in COTA/Mexico

Cheers for doing gods work as usual Luscion. To the bolded...i mean i know a few of us have been beating a dead horse but having the actual driver confirm it is as bleak as it gets. We are 4 races from home and they are still experimenting....and on a sprint weekend. Even though i will be keeping a eye on Lewis's ferrari stint. Merc's 2025 will be very interesting due to the fact the W16 will have characteristics of this years car which could be even more of a headache with Kimi in the other car. I see the car being hit and miss with glimpses of speed but falling off even worse because of the 26 reg change. Worrying times for sure.

Was the W15 completely Alisons or did it have Mike Elliot's dna ?

Yea Lewis has been complaining about the car for most of the season but now Russell, who seemed very comfortable in the car for a while, has now had two crashes and is joining in on how wishy washy the car is. should show just how bad it is

The W15 is all Allison and shares no dna with the 14, when he came back in 2023 he didnt touch anything to do with the W14, he was solely working on the 15.

[Dunlay]

So I once again say, Mike Elliott was a scapegoat of Mercedes' reckless management and brainless witch hunting of Lewis fanbase. A great engineer was lost.

[Quantum]

So I once again say, Mike Elliott was a scapegoat of Mercedes' reckless management and brainless witch hunting of Lewis fanbase. A great engineer was lost.

Room for him at Red Bull, Sauber, or RB. Those teams have >30% less points (Sauber aside...with 0)in their last 10 races compare to their first 10. His prowess with the W13 and W14 was clear to see right?

[Jdn1327]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10668840/

Russell saying the W15 is the most inconsistent car they've had in a long time, also apparently the floors their bringing to Brazil are a slightly modified version of the one Lewis used in COTA/Mexico

Cheers for doing gods work as usual Luscion. To the bolded...i mean i know a few of us have been beating a dead horse but having the actual driver confirm it is as bleak as it gets. We are 4 races from home and they are still experimenting....and on a sprint weekend. Even though i will be keeping a eye on Lewis's ferrari stint. Merc's 2025 will be very interesting due to the fact the W16 will have characteristics of this years car which could be even more of a headache with Kimi in the other car. I see the car being hit and miss with glimpses of speed but falling off even worse because of the 26 reg change. Worrying times for sure.

Was the W15 completely Alisons or did it have Mike Elliot's dna ?

It's so odd that this car does not gel with either drivers driving style. Usually it falls on either side of the garage...look at RB. But this W15 is a headache for both Russell and Hamilton. I though Allison would be the saviour for this car but alas he was a false dawn. Much like the last 3yrs of these regulations for Mercedes

[Vanja #66]

It's so odd that this car does not gel with either drivers driving style. Usually it falls on either side of the garage...look at RB. But this W15 is a headache for both Russell and Hamilton. I though Allison would be the saviour for this car but alas he was a false dawn. Much like the last 3yrs of these regulations for Mercedes

Allison was TD and in charge of design of 2 Ferrari duds in 2014 and 2016, while 2015 car was slightly less uncompetitive. He was TD and in charge of design of W09, which was again a diva and a chassis that seemed to be a step behind SF71 for a good part of the year. I think that many TDs with education background in aero seem to be less willing to take a deep dive into vehicle dynamics and suspension, unlike Newey. Allison, Fry, Tombazis, Sanchez, even Wache it would seem.

[Dunlay]

So I once again say, Mike Elliott was a scapegoat of Mercedes' reckless management and brainless witch hunting of Lewis fanbase. A great engineer was lost.

Room for him at Red Bull, Sauber, or RB. Those teams have >30% less points (Sauber aside...with 0)in their last 10 races compare to their first 10. His prowess with the W13 and W14 was clear to see right?

If you haven't followed Mercedes or Mike well, you would be surprised to know he was the Chief Aerodynamicist for those 8 titles those cars won. Crazy right?

[Farnborough]

It's so odd that this car does not gel with either drivers driving style. Usually it falls on either side of the garage...look at RB. But this W15 is a headache for both Russell and Hamilton. I though Allison would be the saviour for this car but alas he was a false dawn. Much like the last 3yrs of these regulations for Mercedes

Allison was TD and in charge of design of 2 Ferrari duds in 2014 and 2016, while 2015 car was slightly less uncompetitive. He was TD and in charge of design of W09, which was again a diva and a chassis that seemed to be a step behind SF71 for a good part of the year. I think that many TDs with education background in aero seem to be less willing to take a deep dive into vehicle dynamics and suspension, unlike Newey. Allison, Fry, Tombazis, Sanchez, even Wache it would seem.

Would he be the only one driving at some considerable level in historic cars (as well as some when contemporary) too ?

[Jdn1327]

It's so odd that this car does not gel with either drivers driving style. Usually it falls on either side of the garage...look at RB. But this W15 is a headache for both Russell and Hamilton. I though Allison would be the saviour for this car but alas he was a false dawn. Much like the last 3yrs of these regulations for Mercedes

Allison was TD and in charge of design of 2 Ferrari duds in 2014 and 2016, while 2015 car was slightly less uncompetitive. He was TD and in charge of design of W09, which was again a diva and a chassis that seemed to be a step behind SF71 for a good part of the year. I think that many TDs with education background in aero seem to be less willing to take a deep dive into vehicle dynamics and suspension, unlike Newey. Allison, Fry, Tombazis, Sanchez, even Wache it would seem.

I dont know if this is arrogant of me or not but surely they've all have access to the same research material and literature on underfloor aero etc...how can one man get it so right and others get it so wrong?

[maygun]

It's so odd that this car does not gel with either drivers driving style. Usually it falls on either side of the garage...look at RB. But this W15 is a headache for both Russell and Hamilton. I though Allison would be the saviour for this car but alas he was a false dawn. Much like the last 3yrs of these regulations for Mercedes

Allison was TD and in charge of design of 2 Ferrari duds in 2014 and 2016, while 2015 car was slightly less uncompetitive. He was TD and in charge of design of W09, which was again a diva and a chassis that seemed to be a step behind SF71 for a good part of the year. I think that many TDs with education background in aero seem to be less willing to take a deep dive into vehicle dynamics and suspension, unlike Newey. Allison, Fry, Tombazis, Sanchez, even Wache it would seem.

I dont know if this is arrogant of me or not but surely they've all have access to the same research material and literature on underfloor aero etc...how can one man get it so right and others get it so wrong?

Open-access research material and literature on underfloor aero or any kind of modern F1 is very limited. Teams do their own research before and during each regulation change, and develop required tools for it (or update them accordingly).

I think at one point Allison said the team thought they had the organization that would succeed in any kind of regulation change, but they figured out it was not the case. So whatever Mike Elliot planned (not just the car, but the process, research, and tools) for this regulation change was a failure, and they are just trying to catch up still. Hope they learned the lessons, and preparing accordingly to new cycle.

[Vanja #66]

Would he be the only one driving at some considerable level in historic cars (as well as some when contemporary) too ?

Most likely. The main difference between Newey and someone like Byrne, Brawn, Symonds, etc. on one end - compared to most TDs today and yesterday like Allison, Binotto, Cardille, Key, Wache, etc. is that those guys had to fully understand the whole car back in the day. The number of engineers working on the car was probably smaller than a single department today, tools were less advanced and you had to know what you were doing to be competitive.

This required full understanding of what the car does at all times on track and some reasonable intuition to make up for known tool deficiencies. Engineers today are mostly specialists and they are absolute masters of their own area. But when it comes to understanding 100% what the car does at all times, I doubt most of them would be able to completely accurately describe and articulate it. It's an extremely complex subject of course, but obviously it's a key aspect of car design

I dont know if this is arrogant of me or not but surely they've all have access to the same research material and literature on underfloor aero etc...how can one man get it so right and others get it so wrong?

I'm almost certain it has nothing to do with internal knowledge-base, fundamental background scientific research or anything like that. I wrote multiple times it seems like they are too focused on raw performance in a limited number of specific cases of attitudes, cornering speeds and/or ride heights. In other words, I'm certain they are fully capable of reaching their targets, but the leadership setting does targets isn't doing a very good job at all, focusing on performance rather than driveability and performance stability. This is, among other things, why I'm critical of those individuals

[Quantum]

So I once again say, Mike Elliott was a scapegoat of Mercedes' reckless management and brainless witch hunting of Lewis fanbase. A great engineer was lost.

Room for him at Red Bull, Sauber, or RB. Those teams have >30% less points (Sauber aside...with 0)in their last 10 races compare to their first 10. His prowess with the W13 and W14 was clear to see right?

If you haven't followed Mercedes or Mike well, you would be surprised to know he was the Chief Aerodynamicist for those 8 titles those cars won. Crazy right?

If you followed even closer you'd know there was a Ground Effect rule change for 2022....Absolutley bonkers eh?

[SKYnRacing24]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10668840/

Russell saying the W15 is the most inconsistent car they've had in a long time, also apparently the floors their bringing to Brazil are a slightly modified version of the one Lewis used in COTA/Mexico

Cheers for doing gods work as usual Luscion. To the bolded...i mean i know a few of us have been beating a dead horse but having the actual driver confirm it is as bleak as it gets. We are 4 races from home and they are still experimenting....and on a sprint weekend. Even though i will be keeping a eye on Lewis's ferrari stint. Merc's 2025 will be very interesting due to the fact the W16 will have characteristics of this years car which could be even more of a headache with Kimi in the other car. I see the car being hit and miss with glimpses of speed but falling off even worse because of the 26 reg change. Worrying times for sure.

Was the W15 completely Alisons or did it have Mike Elliot's dna ?

Yea Lewis has been complaining about the car for most of the season but now Russell, who seemed very comfortable in the car for a while, has now had two crashes and is joining in on how wishy washy the car is. should show just how bad it is

The W15 is all Allison and shares no dna with the 14, when he came back in 2023 he didnt touch anything to do with the W14, he was solely working on the 15.

Yeah Ham was definitely more vocal on the narrow range of the car but Russell has been quite vocal on Pirelli tyres aswell.

Cheers for the clarification on James Alison. Soo this is his baby, no wonder he looks worn torn in those post race merc youtube videos. As i said. Interesting times for merc and if they can turn it around for next year. You could say 2025 could be throwaway year but the new cars in 26 are still ground effect. Hopefully they do not drop the ball again ,they really can't afford to have that with Kimi in the other car. Even George will have grown tired of false dawn.