Red Bull suspects McLaren and a few other teams of filling water into the tyres

[trinidefender]

The last sentence in that report is crucial, clearly there's all sorts of rival personel poaching in McLaren. Could be nothing, like the RB bib story. It could also be very much something, McLaren obviously does not shy away from making illegal rear wings, so why not an illegal tyre procedure

Every team tries to get away with any illegal thing they think they can get away with. Ferrari PU ring a bell? Bib story is still up in the air. Water in the tyre is to be determined.

[Farnborough]

And sooo .... nobody has ever seen the teams washing all the wheel, with tires still fitted, at rear of paddock when some of the TV crews do extended coverage ? They've even interviewed a few doing just that.

Take all the sets back to pirelli for demounting, with them wet ... then popping the tire off rims would likely not show anything untoward.

Niave to think its impossible.

[TimW]

Is the idea that the water evaporates inside the tyres and that the energy required for a phase change cools the carcass and then the resulting steam keeps absorbing some of the heat?

You have a closed system, the energy does not go anywhere. The pressure in such a tire will be off the charts.

Not necessarily if the water is absorbed by the rubber. There it would act as a plasticizer, softening the rubber. And that might reduce heat generated by the rubber....

Apparently Red Bull explored this before it was banned by the FIA. If it needs to be banned, there must be a potential gain.

[chrisc90]

Vulcanised rubber wouldnt absorb water.

[Alex_Z]

As this is coming from RBR we can confidently dismiss this as nonsense. Next.

If you have nothing to add to the discussion. Please say nothing at all.

Personally I think it sounds off. You would think a bunch of unsprung mass in the tyres would be bad?

Is the idea that the water evaporates inside the tyres and that the energy required for a phase change cools the carcass and then the resulting steam keeps absorbing some of the heat?

There is nothing to see here. RBR throwing shxxt at the fan and hoping it sticks after being caught cheating themselves this season.

[_cerber1]

Not necessarily if the water is absorbed by the rubber. There it would act as a plasticizer, softening the rubber. And that might reduce heat generated by the rubber....

Apparently Red Bull explored this before it was banned by the FIA. If it needs to be banned, there must be a potential gain.

How do you explain to water or steam that it needs to be absorbed into the rubber? As far as I know, the inner surface of the tire has a smooth structure, this is out of the question.

[Darth-Piekus]

There is nothing to see here. RBR throwing shxxt at the fan and hoping it sticks after being caught cheating themselves this season.

Not once but two times.

[bananapeel23]

Is the idea that the water evaporates inside the tyres and that the energy required for a phase change cools the carcass and then the resulting steam keeps absorbing some of the heat?

You have a closed system, the energy does not go anywhere. The pressure in such a tire will be off the charts.

That's true. Even if it is a closed system, wouldn't steam help transfer heat out of the carcass and into the rim more effectively, given the better thermal conductivity of steam?

Would even just a few centiliters of water send the tyre pressures through the roof?

[FittingMechanics]

Is the idea that the water evaporates inside the tyres and that the energy required for a phase change cools the carcass and then the resulting steam keeps absorbing some of the heat?

You have a closed system, the energy does not go anywhere. The pressure in such a tire will be off the charts.

That's true. Even if it is a closed system, wouldn't steam help transfer heat out of the carcass and into the rim more effectively, given the better thermal conductivity of steam? Would even just a few centiliters of water send the tyre pressures through the roof?

I can't think of any other reason to do something like this though?

If the water doesn't evaporate, maybe it makes sense to spread the energy throughout the tire and not be contained to a specific part of the tire patch. Still seems like it's just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks, especially if FIA tried to find evidence of this in Austin and Mexico and couldn't. It should be super simple to detect as tires are closed systems.

Having the accusation being "McLaren and other teams" it is obvious there is no real proof, it's just guesswork.

[TimW]

Vulcanised rubber wouldnt absorb water.

Well the article says a few percent, which seems not unlikely from my experience on chemical compatibility testing on polymers. .

[Alex_Z]

There is nothing to see here. RBR throwing shxxt at the fan and hoping it sticks after being caught cheating themselves this season.

Not once but two times.

I stand corrected. There is news coming out that RBR were using this alleged loophole for years and now they suspect McLaren solely because of former RBR engineers moving to McLaren. Just projection it seems.

[TimW]

Not necessarily if the water is absorbed by the rubber. There it would act as a plasticizer, softening the rubber. And that might reduce heat generated by the rubber....

Apparently Red Bull explored this before it was banned by the FIA. If it needs to be banned, there must be a potential gain.

How do you explain to water or steam that it needs to be absorbed into the rubber? As far as I know, the inner surface of the tire has a smooth structure, this is out of the question.

Permeation & absorption is quite fast at elevated temperatures, so a few hours in the tire warmers might do the trick. The smooth surface is irrelevant.

[_cerber1]

That's true. Even if it is a closed system, wouldn't steam help transfer heat out of the carcass and into the rim more effectively, given the better thermal conductivity of steam?

Would even just a few centiliters of water send the tyre pressures through the roof?

This can also work in the opposite direction, and overheat the tires from the heat of the brakes.

I don't remember the exact coefficient when water changes from one state of aggregation to another, but given the accuracy of Pirelli sensors, this is impossible.

[FittingMechanics]

Wouldn't this be super simple to detect by FIA/Pirelli? Just seize the tires after the race and make the tests.

Any team knowing this is being used by other team could easily use this to DSQ the car for the weekend. It doesn't seem to have been done.

[Watto]

Just see it as RBR playing mind games that are part if F1 for years. Ignore it
McLaren with the bib stuff I think is nothing and this is just a return of serve nothing to see here.

Unless there is more actual proof. Then I tend to let it go as mind games of F1.