2024 Alpine F1 Team

[Jambier]

Was there ever an actual manufacturer team that wasn't using said manufacturers engine? (I don't mean marketing nonsense like Alfa Romeo was a few years ago)

Mclaren, Aston Martin

Aston Martin uses AMG engines in their road cars too.

And Alpine... makes no engines at all.

Brand is selling Renault 5 EV with Megane E Tech engine and some tweak in the chassis.
Then they will have the Scenic EV as well faster than the Renault version.

Only EV, and obviously a brand that will fail in some years.

But for now as said upper, they will have a F1 Team named "Alpine" that is a good way of showing the brand for not too expensive.
There is nothing else, this is the only goals, with some podiums starting in 2027 as Flavio said

[diffuser]

Mclaren, Aston Martin

Aston Martin uses AMG engines in their road cars too.

Don't McLaren technically outsource their engines as well??

The McLaren 650S engine, used in a few of their models, is built by a joint collaboration between McLaren and Ricardo. Ricardo is a West Sussex-based company that has a contract to build the engines for McLaren

[Foryster]

More and more shame

https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/en/ ... 94407.html

But I guess it's over.

Some of You wrote, it's OK - because Renault engine was rather weak recent years.

But this decision is dooming the team to eternal midfield.

They will be 3rd / 4th team in Mercedes family. Mclaren has much stronger correlation. Williams has Mercedes team principal. They will have same gearbox and rear suspension as the rest. Not much options to do something better.

The only benefit is money and the risk of another P9 season is very low. Or maybe Enstone can also create shitty car out Mercedes components! Let's see!

For sure there won't be winning Alpine, what perfectly represents the level of aspirations of the owners.

[yinlad]

They will be 3rd / 4th team in Mercedes family. Mclaren has much stronger correlation. Williams has Mercedes team principal. They will have same gearbox and rear suspension as the rest. Not much options to do something better.

"They will be 3rd / 4th team in Mercedes family" - all PU components are supplied equal to all teams, this is enforced by regulation.

"Mclaren has much stronger correlation" - what does this even mean?

"Williams has Mercedes team principal" - this has zero impact on PU supply.

"They will have same gearbox and rear suspension as the rest" - what source do you have that says they will also move to a Merc suspension and gearbox also? I don't even believe that's the case for Williams or McLaren at the moment.

The fact McLaren are beating Merc with their own engine should be proof that it's possible, not the opposite. I don't quite understand the stink around Renault binning off their PU development, it's an ungodly expensive endeavour and they have lost every single customer they had due to poor engines being pumped out for the last 10 years.

If it was a competitive unit with multiple contracts to other teams I'd understand the criticism but when the workers themselves can only come up with 'they'll miss out of the sporting history' as the reason for not shutting the program down I'm left scratching my head a little bit as to why everyone is upset. It's a results business and they have consistently produced sub-par PUs for the entire hybrid era

[diffuser]

They will be 3rd / 4th team in Mercedes family. Mclaren has much stronger correlation. Williams has Mercedes team principal. They will have same gearbox and rear suspension as the rest. Not much options to do something better.

"They will be 3rd / 4th team in Mercedes family" - all PU components are supplied equal to all teams, this is enforced by regulation.

"Mclaren has much stronger correlation" - what does this even mean?

"Williams has Mercedes team principal" - this has zero impact on PU supply.

"They will have same gearbox and rear suspension as the rest" - what source do you have that says they will also move to a Merc suspension and gearbox also? I don't even believe that's the case for Williams or McLaren at the moment.

The fact McLaren are beating Merc with their own engine should be proof that it's possible, not the opposite. I don't quite understand the stink around Renault binning off their PU development, it's an ungodly expensive endeavour and they have lost every single customer they had due to poor engines being pumped out for the last 10 years.

If it was a competitive unit with multiple contracts to other teams I'd understand the criticism but when the workers themselves can only come up with 'they'll miss out of the sporting history' as the reason for not shutting the program down I'm left scratching my head a little bit as to why everyone is upset. It's a results business and they have consistently produced sub-par PUs for the entire hybrid era

They'll complete like any other team. If McLaren can beat Merc so can Alpine, with the right personnel.

Not sure about Williams but McLaren certainly build their own gearbox and rear suspension. Think only Aston Martin Racing bought all 3 from Merc. They're going to Honda as you know.

The way I look at this thing is, it is simply a money thing. They don't want to continue to spend the money in being a F1 PU supplier. They've been doing it for a while and have decided it isn't worth it or have financial constraints and have to allocate those funds elsewhere. They didn't just wake up and decide they were gonna do this. They likely have a ton of data, including how the fall out Viry will effect them.

Not sure how you argue with that.

[the EDGE]

A telling Otmar interview… for anyone interested

[JordanMugen]

But now, with our P16, P17, we look like jokers.

- Luca de Meo
https://speedcafe.com/renault-boss-call ... e-formula/

...and whose fault is that?! What an exceptionally poor manager of a Grand Prix racing team and engine builder. Dreadful efforts by de Meo -- lack of ambition to win at any cost, lack of ability to secure top level drivers, lack of ability to secure a full roster of engine and gearbox customers by not investing in having the best engine and gearbox over a decade... substandard management all round by de Meo IMO.

The remuneration structure in F1 does not take into account the investments made by the manufacturer teams. So we spend more than the others, but we do not receive move.

- Luca de Meo
https://speedcafe.com/renault-boss-call ... e-formula/

Gee and whose fault is it that you have no power unit customers? Chronic underinvestment in not building the best power unit couldn't be to blame for losing Red Bull, AlphaTauri, McLaren and not gaining Williams, could it?

If Renault are serious where was Viry with double the annual budget of Mercedes HPP from 2015 onwards to ensure Renault engines became the best?! If anything when tasked with Red Bull of making the best units, Ghosn (allegedly) scoffed at the notion of a win-at-any-cost program in the non-cost-capped era.

[Foryster]

Well as you said they were NEVER "here to win". Simple as it is in hybrid era.

Or they were complete idiots.

Let's go back to bringing back Renault F1 team.
- they knew their engine is weak compering to competition and it needed much more money.
- they knew Lotus was outdated on infra and people level and needed serious money to even reach the mid level.
- they knew that top team are spending huge amount of money and to compete with them (even assuming you have better people and some luck) you need to spend close enough money, not 1/3.

So they knew that there is no winning and no podiums without serious money.

Then the budget cap came AND they missed the investment window into factory (before cap) and they missed the windows to make up with the engine before freeze. Why? Either not willing or idiots.

Now de Meo is complaining because he needs to spend 160 milion on engine factory a year, having financially self-substained F1 team. Even if he grew budget to 300, this is still minor investment comparing to those before budget cap WHEN THEY DECIDE TO COME BACK.

So WTF?

[diffuser]

Well as you said they were NEVER "here to win". Simple as it is in hybrid era.

Or they were complete idiots.

Let's go back to bringing back Renault F1 team.
- they knew their engine is weak compering to competition and it needed much more money.
- they knew Lotus was outdated on infra and people level and needed serious money to even reach the mid level.
- they knew that top team are spending huge amount of money and to compete with them (even assuming you have better people and some luck) you need to spend close enough money, not 1/3.

So they knew that there is no winning and no podiums without serious money.

Then the budget cap came AND they missed the investment window into factory (before cap) and they missed the windows to make up with the engine before freeze. Why? Either not willing or idiots.

Now de Meo is complaining because he needs to spend 160 milion on engine factory a year, having financially self-substained F1 team. Even if he grew budget to 300, this is still minor investment comparing to those before budget cap WHEN THEY DECIDE TO COME BACK.

So WTF?

They've also said they spent money upgrading both facilities over the last 5 years. Wind tunnel, they install lots of new machinery in vry, not sure what else they did. they were so excited about it that when Alonso visited they published pictures they took that showed what they were actually working on. Which wasn't their goal.

He's been trying to snake out for a while now.

[gshevlin]

Remember that when Renault were negotiating whether to stay in F1 in the hybrid era, it took a last-minute intervention by Ron Dennis (who is said to have uttered profanities to get the attention of the room) before a favorable enough deal was offered to persuade them to commit to F1.
Several year later, with the Renault PU not really competitive, Adrian Newey and Christian Horner had their fateful meeting with Carlos Ghosn where he stated that Renault was only in F1 because "my marketing guys say that we need to be there".
Renault looks to have behaved like Ford did in their last 15 years in F1. Trying to do it on a fixed budget, and only prepared to spend enough to be vaguely competitive and reap the marketing benefits, instead of spending what is needed to win.

[diffuser]

Remember that when Renault were negotiating whether to stay in F1 in the hybrid era, it took a last-minute intervention by Ron Dennis (who is said to have uttered profanities to get the attention of the room) before a favorable enough deal was offered to persuade them to commit to F1.
Several year later, with the Renault PU not really competitive, Adrian Newey and Christian Horner had their fateful meeting with Carlos Ghosn where he stated that Renault was only in F1 because "my marketing guys say that we need to be there".
Renault looks to have behaved like Ford did in their last 15 years in F1. Trying to do it on a fixed budget, and only prepared to spend enough to be vaguely competitive and reap the marketing benefits, instead of spending what is needed to win.

I agree with that.

On the one hand I'm sad to see them go, on the other hand Alpine have been freed from carrying the Renault PU burden.

[Jambier]

On the one hand I'm sad to see them go, on the other hand Alpine have been freed from carrying the Renault PU burden.

Yes, but now Di Meo will say "we have a great customer engine, we dont need to spend on chassis" and again chase cheap F1 involvement.

[diffuser]

On the one hand I'm sad to see them go, on the other hand Alpine have been freed from carrying the Renault PU burden.

Yes, but now Di Meo will say "we have a great customer engine, we dont need to spend on chassis" and again chase cheap F1 involvement.

It's easy for f1 teams to make a profit with the way F1 has setup the CAP. They don't need money from Renault to spend to the CAP.

[Mansell89]

Quite the day for Alpine! Congratulations to the team!

[chrisc90]

Well done to the team today. Perfectly executed and gained some mega points.