2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[avantman]

[ there were many missed opportunities throughout the year and only one of them could be blamed on Max.

Genuinely curious, which one?

Landos DNF in Austria?

Well, the incident was of his doing, which he later effectively admitted himself. but ok, I'll get this as an answer.
Have a look
https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8w8fTo ... WsPUOwY9U9

[Farnborough]

I just expected something more substantial. I didn't realise he got a 5k fine, still feels small. I think he's lucky that many followed him otherwise it would have been worse, I think.

Agreed. I also expected a bigger penalty and for it to be dished out during the race. Maybe 5 or 10 seconds time penalty.

If we are talking hypotethicals, maybe that would mean Norris stays out during the VSC, stays in P1 ahead of Alpine and then has to fight Verstappen on track for victory.

Verstappen looked to have all the pace in the world but a big shame we didn't get to see a track fight. I'm sure Norris can squeeze just like Verstappen.

Btw, I am still quite upset by how easy Piastri made it for Verstappen. Leclerc was in a much worse situation as he made a big mistake at the last corner but he managed to keep Verstappen behind for a while.

A question, for all interested in this, have any of you driven a vehicle, at the limit, in wet conditions ? That's at the very stretched outer limits of your own abilities.

What I see here, in this race, in these conditions, was that MV handed them their arse on a plate .... all of them. There's nowhere to hide from someone at that level, however us observers, and those on the greater Internet, want to word it.

It absolutely showcases MV braking prowess against all of them. People in comment on him want to attribute many "popular" descriptions to that "dive bombing" being just one of those, but reality is that he is exceptionally accurate and repeatable in dissipation of energy through braking on any surface available.

Thats the task, to even recognise that and work with that superiority in that phase, to then mitigate it in beating him to championship.

Lando worked well here this weekend, ALL of the drivers had not a answer to MV in reality. Match that to the RB "streetfighter" mentality and application .... MV stayed out on perilous tires to cope with an eventuality of safety car etc, this all the teams SAY they aim for, then didn't action it. Thats their choice in those circumstances, and didn't get the choice exactly right here, obviously. There's, of course, risk either way on that. Far too easy to sit and judge them after the fact. As soon as anyone saw the forecast for conditions this day, then logic swung to RB & MV in at least bring a high performing result.

McL have to accept they need to work around this level in a championship year. Much like a Prost vs Senna championship of very different attributes in each driver.

[FittingMechanics]

I just expected something more substantial. I didn't realise he got a 5k fine, still feels small. I think he's lucky that many followed him otherwise it would have been worse, I think.

Agreed. I also expected a bigger penalty and for it to be dished out during the race. Maybe 5 or 10 seconds time penalty.

If we are talking hypotethicals, maybe that would mean Norris stays out during the VSC, stays in P1 ahead of Alpine and then has to fight Verstappen on track for victory.

Verstappen looked to have all the pace in the world but a big shame we didn't get to see a track fight. I'm sure Norris can squeeze just like Verstappen.

Btw, I am still quite upset by how easy Piastri made it for Verstappen. Leclerc was in a much worse situation as he made a big mistake at the last corner but he managed to keep Verstappen behind for a while.

A question, for all interested in this, have any of you driven a vehicle, at the limit, in wet conditions ? That's at the very stretched outer limits of your own abilities.

What I see here, in this race, in these conditions, was that MV handed them their arse on a plate .... all of them. There's nowhere to hide from someone at that level, however us observers, and those on the greater Internet, want to word it.

Ofcourse MV dominated, that was obvious but before the race it should have been obvious to Piastri that there are only two goals in the race.
1. Finish the race
2. Don't let Max through easily

I don't doubt Max would have gone through in the end as he seemed to have plenty of pace but I expected more from Piastri. You can also see that soon after (after LAW waved him through) VER got to a group of drivers he couldn't overtake. He attacked LEC, got close but was closed down.

I don't expect PIA to beat VER but I expected him to make it hard. He didn't make it hard at all. You can dress it up any way you like but PIA was to look like an amateur in that corner, against a driver that your teammate is dreaming of beating in the WDC.

In the end it was not to be, but if they want to challenge next year, they have to do better. Piastri needs to be more consistent and if the situation ends up similar to this year, he needs to defend for Norris. I don't doubt Piastri knows how to defend as it looked great in Baku but it does seem like his pace isn't great when he is asked to support his teammate.

[Ben1980]

I just expected something more substantial. I didn't realise he got a 5k fine, still feels small. I think he's lucky that many followed him otherwise it would have been worse, I think.

Agreed. I also expected a bigger penalty and for it to be dished out during the race. Maybe 5 or 10 seconds time penalty.

If we are talking hypotethicals, maybe that would mean Norris stays out during the VSC, stays in P1 ahead of Alpine and then has to fight Verstappen on track for victory.

Verstappen looked to have all the pace in the world but a big shame we didn't get to see a track fight. I'm sure Norris can squeeze just like Verstappen.

Btw, I am still quite upset by how easy Piastri made it for Verstappen. Leclerc was in a much worse situation as he made a big mistake at the last corner but he managed to keep Verstappen behind for a while.

A question, for all interested in this, have any of you driven a vehicle, at the limit, in wet conditions ? That's at the very stretched outer limits of your own abilities.

What I see here, in this race, in these conditions, was that MV handed them their arse on a plate .... all of them. There's nowhere to hide from someone at that level, however us observers, and those on the greater Internet, want to word it.

It absolutely showcases MV braking prowess against all of them. People in comment on him want to attribute many "popular" descriptions to that "dive bombing" being just one of those, but reality is that he is exceptionally accurate and repeatable in dissipation of energy through braking on any surface available.

Thats the task, to even recognise that and work with that superiority in that phase, to then mitigate it in beating him to championship.

Lando worked well here this weekend, ALL of the drivers had not a answer to MV in reality. Match that to the RB "streetfighter" mentality and application .... MV stayed out on perilous tires to cope with an eventuality of safety car etc, this all the teams SAY they aim for, then didn't action it. Thats their choice in those circumstances, and didn't get the choice exactly right here, obviously. There's, of course, risk either way on that. Far too easy to sit and judge them after the fact. As soon as anyone saw the forecast for conditions this day, then logic swung to RB & MV in at least bring a high performing result.

McL have to accept they need to work around this level in a championship year. Much like a Prost vs Senna championship of very different attributes in each driver.

You say he stayed out on perilous tyres, how many laps was it from when Lando pitted to the safety car and red flag? If it was 3 laps, his tyres were sane level as Landos at his stop, as Max had new inters and 3 laps younger.

Max was great, and carved through the field like a surgeon. But he was bottled up behind Leclerc, until he pitted. And had Lando closing him until the safety and red flag.

He was great, but that race was going to be fine under the safety car, and he would likely have been pretty far back as he said his tyres were gone, so needed to pit. I think one more safety car lap and it's a different race.

But, that's the sort if thing that can happen in racing.

[FittingMechanics]

Yeah, Max did really great to put himself into a position where he could capitalize on the red flag. He drove super well, he was patient when he needed to be and fast when it was important. But it could have easily backfired. Without Colapinto crash we probably stay under safety car and Verstappen needs to pit into traffic again to take new tires.

[mwillems]

I just expected something more substantial. I didn't realise he got a 5k fine, still feels small. I think he's lucky that many followed him otherwise it would have been worse, I think.

Agreed. I also expected a bigger penalty and for it to be dished out during the race. Maybe 5 or 10 seconds time penalty.

If we are talking hypotethicals, maybe that would mean Norris stays out during the VSC, stays in P1 ahead of Alpine and then has to fight Verstappen on track for victory.

Verstappen looked to have all the pace in the world but a big shame we didn't get to see a track fight. I'm sure Norris can squeeze just like Verstappen.

Btw, I am still quite upset by how easy Piastri made it for Verstappen. Leclerc was in a much worse situation as he made a big mistake at the last corner but he managed to keep Verstappen behind for a while.

He just didn't have not 50% of the grip that Max found, the gap in traction was a chasm. Oscar was struggling to get the car to turn in and Max looked like he was on a drying track, sending the car wherever he wanted to. I rather think this was down to the fact that Max was by far the best driver today, and potentially for all of it's flaws, the car is better in those conditions. There was almost nothing he could do and if he did try he was likely to cause a crash. Agree that the performance wasn't up to par, but suggesting he was happy to let Max by seems unreasonable.

[Farnborough]

Agreed. I also expected a bigger penalty and for it to be dished out during the race. Maybe 5 or 10 seconds time penalty.

If we are talking hypotethicals, maybe that would mean Norris stays out during the VSC, stays in P1 ahead of Alpine and then has to fight Verstappen on track for victory.

Verstappen looked to have all the pace in the world but a big shame we didn't get to see a track fight. I'm sure Norris can squeeze just like Verstappen.

Btw, I am still quite upset by how easy Piastri made it for Verstappen. Leclerc was in a much worse situation as he made a big mistake at the last corner but he managed to keep Verstappen behind for a while.

A question, for all interested in this, have any of you driven a vehicle, at the limit, in wet conditions ? That's at the very stretched outer limits of your own abilities.

What I see here, in this race, in these conditions, was that MV handed them their arse on a plate .... all of them. There's nowhere to hide from someone at that level, however us observers, and those on the greater Internet, want to word it.

It absolutely showcases MV braking prowess against all of them. People in comment on him want to attribute many "popular" descriptions to that "dive bombing" being just one of those, but reality is that he is exceptionally accurate and repeatable in dissipation of energy through braking on any surface available.

Thats the task, to even recognise that and work with that superiority in that phase, to then mitigate it in beating him to championship.

Lando worked well here this weekend, ALL of the drivers had not a answer to MV in reality. Match that to the RB "streetfighter" mentality and application .... MV stayed out on perilous tires to cope with an eventuality of safety car etc, this all the teams SAY they aim for, then didn't action it. Thats their choice in those circumstances, and didn't get the choice exactly right here, obviously. There's, of course, risk either way on that. Far too easy to sit and judge them after the fact. As soon as anyone saw the forecast for conditions this day, then logic swung to RB & MV in at least bring a high performing result.

McL have to accept they need to work around this level in a championship year. Much like a Prost vs Senna championship of very different attributes in each driver.

You say he stayed out on perilous tyres, how many laps was it from when Lando pitted to the safety car and red flag? If it was 3 laps, his tyres were sane level as Landos at his stop, as Max had new inters and 3 laps younger.

Max was great, and carved through the field like a surgeon. But he was bottled up behind Leclerc, until he pitted. And had Lando closing him until the safety and red flag.

He was great, but that race was going to be fine under the safety car, and he would likely have been pretty far back as he said his tyres were gone, so needed to pit. I think one more safety car lap and it's a different race.

But, that's the sort if thing that can happen in racing.

Thats a "coulda, shoulda, woulda" statement, that didn't happen. LN & GR had already decided, of their own volition, that their tires were too perilous to continue, in their experience.
Like saying, if they'd scored more goals, then they'd have won the cup

That’s a decision they and their teams made, and then matched against the stance of MV & his team.

It rolled out as it did with the decisions made in play, not a fantasy.

[mwillems]

Agreed. I also expected a bigger penalty and for it to be dished out during the race. Maybe 5 or 10 seconds time penalty.

If we are talking hypotethicals, maybe that would mean Norris stays out during the VSC, stays in P1 ahead of Alpine and then has to fight Verstappen on track for victory.

Verstappen looked to have all the pace in the world but a big shame we didn't get to see a track fight. I'm sure Norris can squeeze just like Verstappen.

Btw, I am still quite upset by how easy Piastri made it for Verstappen. Leclerc was in a much worse situation as he made a big mistake at the last corner but he managed to keep Verstappen behind for a while.

A question, for all interested in this, have any of you driven a vehicle, at the limit, in wet conditions ? That's at the very stretched outer limits of your own abilities.

What I see here, in this race, in these conditions, was that MV handed them their arse on a plate .... all of them. There's nowhere to hide from someone at that level, however us observers, and those on the greater Internet, want to word it.

It absolutely showcases MV braking prowess against all of them. People in comment on him want to attribute many "popular" descriptions to that "dive bombing" being just one of those, but reality is that he is exceptionally accurate and repeatable in dissipation of energy through braking on any surface available.

Thats the task, to even recognise that and work with that superiority in that phase, to then mitigate it in beating him to championship.

Lando worked well here this weekend, ALL of the drivers had not a answer to MV in reality. Match that to the RB "streetfighter" mentality and application .... MV stayed out on perilous tires to cope with an eventuality of safety car etc, this all the teams SAY they aim for, then didn't action it. Thats their choice in those circumstances, and didn't get the choice exactly right here, obviously. There's, of course, risk either way on that. Far too easy to sit and judge them after the fact. As soon as anyone saw the forecast for conditions this day, then logic swung to RB & MV in at least bring a high performing result.

McL have to accept they need to work around this level in a championship year. Much like a Prost vs Senna championship of very different attributes in each driver.

You say he stayed out on perilous tyres, how many laps was it from when Lando pitted to the safety car and red flag? If it was 3 laps, his tyres were sane level as Landos at his stop, as Max had new inters and 3 laps younger.

Max was great, and carved through the field like a surgeon. But he was bottled up behind Leclerc, until he pitted. And had Lando closing him until the safety and red flag.

He was great, but that race was going to be fine under the safety car, and he would likely have been pretty far back as he said his tyres were gone, so needed to pit. I think one more safety car lap and it's a different race.

But, that's the sort if thing that can happen in racing.

Max definitely had some luck, but he went from 17th to first in these conditions because he is a much better driver than those around him. It's about time some people stopped fantasising their favourite drivers into a level of ability they just don't have.

[venkyhere]

Not everything Is a conspiracy. In fact very little is.

The strangest thing from race control when 3 drivers have breached the rules to delete one lap from a race :
"noted, will evaluate after the race"
What is there to evaluate ? It was a binary yes/no decision - cars drove off on yellow lights.
What stewards' message really meant :
"we will decide based on race result in case there is going to be big repercussion on championship fight"

But that doesn't make sense. With Norris losing out heavily to Verstappen they could have given him a big penalty as it doesn't matter anymore. It would be much bigger issue if Norris won with a small margin and then the penalty would be potentially a big difference.

Or are you trying to claim they wanted to help Verstappen so if he finished behind, they would penalize Norris heavily. I'm sure you are not, but that would only make sense.

I am claiming it's the first of your two conditions. The aim would be to close the WDC 'points gap', if they can.

FoM/F1 - the whole 'business' side of it, exert tremendous pressure on FIA/race-control, behind the curtains, to turn 'dilly dally decisions' (the ones which are not printed in black and white in the rulebook) in favour of making 'entertainment' the top priority. They want fans and the media to invest emotionally into F1 more and more. There is no ethics, it's business. They want as many close championship fights as possible. That's what wins the big bucks.

Hence my guess on what race control's thought process would be - "since this is something with no precedent, it gives us 'room to maneuver' and if the race outcome is such that the WDC fight can be made 'tighter' by our decision, let's make it ; otherwise if the WDC fight becomes weaker, let's not further weaken it."

Because, ultimately, the WCC fight is not as much 'entertainment' as the WDC fight is. Although from the teams' perspective, it's the other way around.

We need to be honest and admit that Mclaren and Norris werent ready for WDC. Hopefully they secure WCC, and make another step in the next season.

The reason such expectations get set, is, in fairness, because ever since the Miami upgrade (the real 2024 MCL38 car), the McLaren car didn't really have any weakness as such. All it needed was a little bit of drag reduction without sacrificing downforce and the engineers did a spectacular job afterwards. To the technical team at McLaren, it's a 100/100 score in their report card. Naturally, fans got convinced that the 'hardest part of winning' was the car itself, and with two excellent drivers, taking the fight to Redbull would only be about "execution" which was a lesser mountain to climb, it seemed. Then came Silverstone, then came Canada, then came all those races which started to bite. Now fans have woken upto the realization that 'winning execution' is as hard as making a winning car. IMHO, we can't blame the spectators/fans of McLaren if they feel a bit disappointed. How many years has the drought been ? I wouldn't blame expectations, but I fully agree with your point. Thinking rationally, McLaren have had a tremendous season, nailing the WCC would the final testament.

[avantman]

Any tweets from Zak or interview from Stella? Where have they all gone?

[Watto]

Any tweets from Zak or interview from Stella? Where have they all gone?

Stella was interviewed he complimented Max. Gave credit where it was due. Zak was quite

[mwillems]

Any tweets from Zak or interview from Stella? Where have they all gone?

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/311379/a ... title.html

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 57294.html

[basti313]

Yeah, Max did really great to put himself into a position where he could capitalize on the red flag. He drove super well, he was patient when he needed to be and fast when it was important. But it could have easily backfired. Without Colapinto crash we probably stay under safety car and Verstappen needs to pit into traffic again to take new tires.

Well, that is a bit short, there were multiple points leading to the outcome and I do not see much "backfire":
- What actually hurt Lando and Russel the most was the wrong call for the pitstop at the VSC. Russel clearly said it after the race and this really put both back. That cost both of them more than 10sec (I guess even more, I do not have the lap timing available now). The call was just blatantly wrong and there was enough time to correct when they saw Hulkenberg driving away.
- Even if the Alpines and Max were the only ones on worn tires, it was wet. Means the field spreads quickly, in Imola atwo years ago on a much less wet track on even tires, the field spread in 5 laps to 19sec till P8. Lando and George would need to pass the Alpines with Yuki on wets behind...I really do not see Verstappen loosing many positions with the 19sec of a normal pitstop there (also no lap times, I wonder if it was even 19sec in the wet), he would just need to hang out a few laps and defend the position.
- With the gap he put on the others and the clumsy restarts...there is not much difference thinkable especially if the Alpines and the RedBull come on the drying track. They were on average a second faster on nearly equal tires.

[McL-H]

I don’t care much about the WDC anyway. There is a reason I support a team and not any driver in particular. If there is one sport that should be regarded as a team sport, it is this. Teams make winning cars. Not drivers.

[Ben1980]

Yeah, Max did really great to put himself into a position where he could capitalize on the red flag. He drove super well, he was patient when he needed to be and fast when it was important. But it could have easily backfired. Without Colapinto crash we probably stay under safety car and Verstappen needs to pit into traffic again to take new tires.

Well, that is a bit short, there were multiple points leading to the outcome and I do not see much "backfire":
- What actually hurt Lando and Russel the most was the wrong call for the pitstop at the VSC. Russel clearly said it after the race and this really put both back. That cost both of them more than 10sec (I guess even more, I do not have the lap timing available now). The call was just blatantly wrong and there was enough time to correct when they saw Hulkenberg driving away.
- Even if the Alpines and Max were the only ones on worn tires, it was wet. Means the field spreads quickly, in Imola atwo years ago on a much less wet track on even tires, the field spread in 5 laps to 19sec till P8. Lando and George would need to pass the Alpines with Yuki on wets behind...I really do not see Verstappen loosing many positions with the 19sec of a normal pitstop there (also no lap times, I wonder if it was even 19sec in the wet), he would just need to hang out a few laps and defend the position.
- With the gap he put on the others and the clumsy restarts...there is not much difference thinkable especially if the Alpines and the RedBull come on the drying track. They were on average a second faster on nearly equal tires.

Wasn't Lando quite close to Max when the safety car was called? If the cars got bunched behind the safety car, and then Nax and the Alpines stopped, they would have dropped a bit down the order.

The call was probably right at the time, but not in hindsight. Lando said his tyres were gone.