Mercedes W15

[Cassius]

They have no clue.

Russell was pretty close in Brazil. With McLaren and maybe also Ferrari's race pace potentially being effected by the tyre filling accusations, they are not that far from the top teams. Their car is just very stiff and like the RB20 that brings its issues. RB and Mercedes will need to move a bit towards the McLaren and Ferrari approach to create a more allround car without it effecting df levels too much.

[Farnborough]

This appears to be the same story, since 2022 start, in that they can clearly generate load from their aero.

Fundamentally they're not able to competently excute the acquired load through their platform

As with each iteration of W xx it arrives at hyper~hyper critical margin of deployment, falling significantly within or catastrophically outside a workable and operationally defined whole.

The part that's alarming is they themselves make statement of not knowing why that is.

Additional to that is the AMR car, sharing so much in drive train, gearbox and rear suspension inclusive, as well as wind tunnel research hardware, to give cause for consideration as to what those elements are really doing.

Comprehensive in its delivery of the two cars at such different technical performance at recent Brazil GP as most up to date assessment.

[KimiRai]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... /10671263/

[Vanja #66]

Would really love to know how that winglet can be legal

[nico5]

Would really love to know how that winglet can be legal

Tombazis writes the rules. That's how...

[Waz]

Would really love to know how that winglet can be legal

Surely that's blatantly creating outwash? The FIA have given themselves the power to just go "Nope, not happening" if it is. Let's see if they use it.

[organic]

Would really love to know how that winglet can be legal

Surely that's blatantly creating outwash? The FIA have given themselves the power to just go "Nope, not happening" if it is. Let's see if they use it.

Tombazis said at end of 2023 it's unlikely they'll continue stepping in on designs that "create too much outwash" anymore, the reasoning for which was essentially 'that ship has sailed'; outwash had already become out of hand again so limiting designs to reduce outwash and improve following closely is mostly pointless now

[Sevach]

Would really love to know how that winglet can be legal

Surely that's blatantly creating outwash? The FIA have given themselves the power to just go "Nope, not happening" if it is. Let's see if they use it.

Tombazis said at end of 2023 it's unlikely they'll continue stepping in on designs that "create too much outwash" anymore, the reasoning for which was essentially 'that ship has sailed'; outwash had already become out of hand again so limiting designs to reduce outwash and improve following closely is mostly pointless now

The endplate regs from 2019 held up better than the current ones, less loopholes were abused.

[Vappy]

Car seems to be doing well. Are we aware of any upgrades brought to the car?

It would seem the low yet stiff ride height has been able to perform better at las vegas due to not as many bumps compared to the previous race.

[organic]

Car seems to be doing well. Are we aware of any upgrades brought to the car?

It would seem the low yet stiff ride height has been able to perform better at las vegas due to not as many bumps compared to the previous race.

It's the cold/low grip conditions

[Vanja #66]

Thats a pure downforce comparison, that's between these two chassis. It's absolutely king in flexing the tire carcass in colder conditions (which is where longer run traction and life is derived) the MB easily superior in this very interesting head-to-head race. Also enhanced by LH having to run it so hard and not tire save at all, just moved it into bigger difference. The Ferrari didn't stand a chance against them under these conditions, nobody else either.

I didn't see any evidence it was ever about downforce tbh, Merc lights up rear tyres in all conditions and all races. They were open about this issue after a few races already, it must have been pretty evident to everyone on the grid. I'm 99% certain most of the issues AMR24 is facing is connected to W15 rear suspension design and suboptimal (over a season) tyre treatment. Merc even had early-season issues synching front and rear tyre temps, they could keep the fronts in the window but then the rears would overheat etc. They seem to have found a compromised balance overall, otherwise a race like we saw yesterday wouldn't be possible

[Cassius]

Car seems to be doing well. Are we aware of any upgrades brought to the car?

It would seem the low yet stiff ride height has been able to perform better at las vegas due to not as many bumps compared to the previous race.

It's the cold/low grip conditions

Russell also mentioned it was the smooth track surface allowing them to run lower that suits the car.

“It’s no secret that we struggle on the bumpy circuits and we have to lift the car quite a lot,” Russell said. “We’ve got to make it much softer. And then we’re in a downforce window where we don’t have any. It’s not that we just suddenly forget how to set the car up. It’s just certain circuits require us to put the car in a window it doesn’t like to be.

“On tracks like this where it’s relatively smooth, we can get the car quite low, quite stiff, with little or no bumps around the track, we fly.”

[Farnborough]

I don't know if people are aware, there's a big difference in tire surface temperature generation (spinning above linear/lateral speed to track difference) and tire carcass flex/heat generation.

If that's not accounted for, then this situation can't be understood in observation.

This chassis, clearly and obviously can be seen to load the carcass, even though the pressure was raised, to very good effect.

I stated this before any running took place, because you could see the various elements focusing in this aspect.

The pressure increase also has the effect of disadvantage to the other team chassis. That was clearly seen here.

Core tire temps (carcass) also being closer to tread gauge temps helps mitigate "graining" too.

[venkyhere]

@Farnborough

I think you have to rephrase 'carcass temp generation' to a more layman friendly 'sidewall flex heat generation' and then it will be better understood.

I'm guessing that your point is -

despite the cold track/air and despite the higher min filling pressure (all of which make the tyre hardened and stiff) , the Mercedes with it's stiffer-than-others rear suspension, low ride AND 'whatever is the aero shortcoming that doesn't keep the rear planted in typical temp tarmac ' (their perennial problem) was helping the car have enough slippage (that would have been a disaster on a hot track) maintain a perfect heat exchange equilibrium with brakes, tarmac and even the passing air of the straights. The other teams, who are far kinder to their rear tyres, kept losing rubber temperature whenever the long straight was involved.

Did I guess your point correctly ?

[Mattchu]

From my albeit limited understanding of the black art of tyre warming, the teams are looking for a uniform to depth core temperature of the tyres so it doesn`t lose too much heat on the straights.
That being the surface temp of most of the tyre being pretty much the same (in the optimum band) and the base layer of the rubber down to the bead wire being just a few degrees cooler (uniform).
What Mercedes have really suffered with is the surface temperature of the compound has at most tracks been totally out of kilter.
The rears have sometimes been getting much too hot at the surface (in relation to the carcass) compared to the fronts which means the car isn`t predictable or the rear just slides, which makes it worse again!
For me, Red Bull had the opposite several races ago (when Max complained of understeer) and the fronts where getting out of range compared to the rears.
Mercedes don`t seem to have a car that has a setup window of anything other than a certain set of circumstances. i.e. very smooth track surface with minimal bumps (nice low car) and a pretty cool ambient temperature.
When the conditions are right (like Vegas), the car looks on rails, although we`ve seen the same on the Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari at various times during the season...