2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[Nikosar]

I suspected early that they had spare issue. Now confirmed. But that is not an issue in reality as they did their best with what they had.

The issue is the fact that they decided first to go back to the Suzuka floor. It is worrying. It was the 4th GP… that mean going back and throwing away months of development…

[diffuser]

I suspected early that they had spare issue. Now confirmed. But that is not an issue in reality as they did their best with what they had.

The issue is the fact that they decided first to go back to the Suzuka floor. It is worrying. It was the 4th GP… that mean going back and throwing away months of development…

So that article, point to by KimiRai, Say the upgrades are working "The difficulties arise from those phenomena that cannot be analysed except on the track, such as transients, the transition between the various phases of the curve or the impact between the floor and the ground. “We found that for the most part [the updates] behave as we expect, although sometimes there are slightly underestimated consequences, or others that we are aware of, but which have a heavier impact on performance”, comments Dan Fallows to Racecar Engineering."


It also says they've been testing with different floors.

[zoroastar]

I suspected early that they had spare issue. Now confirmed. But that is not an issue in reality as they did their best with what they had.

The issue is the fact that they decided first to go back to the Suzuka floor. It is worrying. It was the 4th GP… that mean going back and throwing away months of development…

So that article, point to by KimiRai, Say the upgrades are working "The difficulties arise from those phenomena that cannot be analysed except on the track, such as transients, the transition between the various phases of the curve or the impact between the floor and the ground. “We found that for the most part [the updates] behave as we expect, although sometimes there are slightly underestimated consequences, or others that we are aware of, but which have a heavier impact on performance”, comments Dan Fallows to Racecar Engineering."


It also says they've been testing with different floors.

on the hardware side of things im beginning to think that their overall suspension design is bad, and makes it incredibly hard to bring any parts that work. you see it happening at mercedes too to a lesser extent. no matter what they bring, it starts coming back to porpoising, unable to find a perfect ride height, or unable to ride over curbs, etc. we already know how important the suspension is in this rule set. newey took it as his #1 priority at redbull when they started designing the rb18. they are trying to design their way around something with a fundamental flaw to begin with, or has a lower ceiling for improvements. maybe theyve just been wasting time and money trying to work around something that cant be fixed. at least not "fixed" enough to compete in this close field. i guess its too far along into these rules to start from the ground up anyway.

also, i wonder how long, and how hard it would be for them to figure this out for themselves if they are in their own aston martin bubble. seems like it could be hard to decipher bad suspension/chassis from bad correlation.

[Rikrikrik]

AM could be build something like a AMR25B for second part of the season in the new wind tunnel and not bring any update until that happen? could be a great strategy and not bring upgrades from the Mercede's WT or they can use their new WT just for the 2026 car?

[diffuser]

I suspected early that they had spare issue. Now confirmed. But that is not an issue in reality as they did their best with what they had.

The issue is the fact that they decided first to go back to the Suzuka floor. It is worrying. It was the 4th GP… that mean going back and throwing away months of development…

So that article, point to by KimiRai, Say the upgrades are working "The difficulties arise from those phenomena that cannot be analysed except on the track, such as transients, the transition between the various phases of the curve or the impact between the floor and the ground. “We found that for the most part [the updates] behave as we expect, although sometimes there are slightly underestimated consequences, or others that we are aware of, but which have a heavier impact on performance”, comments Dan Fallows to Racecar Engineering."


It also says they've been testing with different floors.

on the hardware side of things im beginning to think that their overall suspension design is bad, and makes it incredibly hard to bring any parts that work. you see it happening at mercedes too to a lesser extent. no matter what they bring, it starts coming back to porpoising, unable to find a perfect ride height, or unable to ride over curbs, etc. we already know how important the suspension is in this rule set. newey took it as his #1 priority at redbull when they started designing the rb18. they are trying to design their way around something with a fundamental flaw to begin with, or has a lower ceiling for improvements. maybe theyve just been wasting time and money trying to work around something that cant be fixed. at least not "fixed" enough to compete in this close field. i guess its too far along into these rules to start from the ground up anyway.

also, i wonder how long, and how hard it would be for them to figure this out for themselves if they are in their own aston martin bubble. seems like it could be hard to decipher bad suspension/chassis from bad correlation.

It always hard to know how much they say is being "generalized", as to not make it too specific and give something away. I don't think Fallows is pointing to a suspension problem. Even if it was the suspension, you can't build a "good" suspension if you don't know what NOT to do. They are surprised by whatever is occurring. Fallows is suggesting it's aero issue, atleast that's what I got out of the article.

[Waz]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10671383/

TLDR: After qualifying, the team didn't have enough spare floors so had to switch to the Hungary one without penalty. They weren't allowed to change the suspension settings to adjust to the different floor, which led to the exaggerated brake issues and nervous rear end.

That was a bizarre decision then. It's not like Alonso was starting on the front row, so why not just set up the car properly and start from the pit lane? That just makes no sense to me.

Alonso is one of the absolute best in the rain, with a proper set up, and almost certain SC or Red Flag, it could have been him on the podium with an Alpine.

This team has very poor operational management on race weekends.

[KimiRai]

Krack (among other stuff)

"The AMR25 looks encouraging in the wind tunnel"

"For next year, the immediate goal is to start the season in a better place than we started this one"

"Success next year will be to bridge that gap and turn the top four into a top five."

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... ck-on-2024

Sadly he holds zero credibility as he literally said that this second half of 2024 would be better than the first half. Among other gaffes. We'll see I guess, I want to trust this team but they definitely make it hard.

[Sherrinford]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10671383/

TLDR: After qualifying, the team didn't have enough spare floors so had to switch to the Hungary one without penalty. They weren't allowed to change the suspension settings to adjust to the different floor, which led to the exaggerated brake issues and nervous rear end.

I had forgotten that the difference between the Hungry floor fences and the Austin Floor fences is the part close to the rear tires, the Austin floor has a convex bubble on the floor fence with an opening
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GaPlgqtXkAA ... =4096x4096

while the Hungry floor is flush same as Imola introduced in Suzuka...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXRtAMTW8AA ... name=large

This is a better picture with the rear but it doesn't have the Hungry Front...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRqC0d6WMAA ... name=large

You can clearly see in this video it's the Hungry floor ...

I told you, you posted the same two identical photos so there were no differences. The Suzuka surface is the best for now, probably because of the impact the surface has with the asphalt while the others are aerodynamically better but apparently they are not synergistic with this type of suspension. Evidently they will change the suspensions next year, especially that one front which has created a lot problems.

[diffuser]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10671383/

TLDR: After qualifying, the team didn't have enough spare floors so had to switch to the Hungary one without penalty. They weren't allowed to change the suspension settings to adjust to the different floor, which led to the exaggerated brake issues and nervous rear end.

I had forgotten that the difference between the Hungry floor fences and the Austin Floor fences is the part close to the rear tires, the Austin floor has a convex bubble on the floor fence with an opening
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GaPlgqtXkAA ... =4096x4096

while the Hungry floor is flush same as Imola introduced in Suzuka...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXRtAMTW8AA ... name=large

This is a better picture with the rear but it doesn't have the Hungry Front...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRqC0d6WMAA ... name=large

You can clearly see in this video it's the Hungry floor ...

I told you, you posted the same two identical photos so there were no differences. The Suzuka surface is the best for now, probably because of the impact the surface has with the asphalt while the others are aerodynamically better but apparently they are not synergistic with this type of suspension. Evidently they will change the suspensions next year, especially that one front which has created a lot problems.

I don't remember you telling me I posted the same picture ....

I guess those floors are gone, they're not gonna make More Suzuka spec floors for the last 3 races.... Guess it's Imola, Hungry or Austin.

I hope it's a suspension problem.

[jofs89]

Krack (among other stuff)

"The AMR25 looks encouraging in the wind tunnel"

"For next year, the immediate goal is to start the season in a better place than we started this one"

"Success next year will be to bridge that gap and turn the top four into a top five."

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... ck-on-2024

Sadly he holds zero credibility as he literally said that this second half of 2024 would be better than the first half. Among other gaffes. We'll see I guess, I want to trust this team but they definitely make it hard.

Which wind tunnel, the Mercedes one?? Presumably, this year's car looking promising in the wind tunnel as well as the upgrade packages? And look how that turned out.

Why does he feel the need to even say that at this point? Everyone involved should frankly be embarrassed at this point. They need to shut up and deliver before they start talking this nonesense again!

[diffuser]

Krack (among other stuff)

"The AMR25 looks encouraging in the wind tunnel"

"For next year, the immediate goal is to start the season in a better place than we started this one"

"Success next year will be to bridge that gap and turn the top four into a top five."

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... ck-on-2024

Sadly he holds zero credibility as he literally said that this second half of 2024 would be better than the first half. Among other gaffes. We'll see I guess, I want to trust this team but they definitely make it hard.

Which wind tunnel, the Mercedes one?? Presumably, this year's car looking promising in the wind tunnel as well as the upgrade packages? And look how that turned out.

Why does he feel the need to even say that at this point? Everyone involved should frankly be embarrassed at this point. They need to shut up and deliver before they start talking this nonesense again!

I think if he didn't say it, it would sound like he lost faith in the technical team. Wether you have and you're planning changes or haven't and are not it doesn't help to show you've lost confidence. It just shines a bigger spot light on everything with no gain.

Also, in his defense, you don't know what you don't know.

[jofs89]

Krack (among other stuff)



https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... ck-on-2024

Sadly he holds zero credibility as he literally said that this second half of 2024 would be better than the first half. Among other gaffes. We'll see I guess, I want to trust this team but they definitely make it hard.

Which wind tunnel, the Mercedes one?? Presumably, this year's car looking promising in the wind tunnel as well as the upgrade packages? And look how that turned out.

Why does he feel the need to even say that at this point? Everyone involved should frankly be embarrassed at this point. They need to shut up and deliver before they start talking this nonesense again!

I think if he didn't say it, it would sound like he lost faith in the technical team. Wether you have and you're planning changes or haven't and are not it doesn't help to show you've lost confidence. It just shines a bigger spot light on everything with no gain.

Also, in his defense, you don't know what you don't know.

Yeah, I get it from a corporate perspective. He's in a tough spot. I was just have a bit of petulant 5 minutes, to be honest. Just sick of hearing the same thing with no improvements.

On a more positive note. I really do hope that his comments have some truth to them and are not just corporate face saving.

I guess at least with them having pretty much the slowest car now, the only way is up!

[Sherrinford]

Disagree.




https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-al ... /10670802/

Yeah, I had already read that,wouldn't be the first time a reputable site got things wrong and I found pictures on Motorsport. It wouldn't be the first time they dated pictures incorrectly too.

Brazil Looks like they ran Austin floor
Sprint Quali
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -amr2.webp
Sprint Race
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tin-a.webp
Quali
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -amr2.webp
Race
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tin-a.webp

Both the sprint ones and the ones you sent exactly the same two identical photos. In my opinion they used Suzuka in fp1 and it was fine, since the sprint wasn't very interesting they did two test sessions in sprint quali and sprint race, seeing the results they returned again to Suzuka and in fact Alonso in quali he was flying, after the damage they were forced to return to Austin. This is what I think and what I have deduced, I am ready to be proven wrong

Now do you remember Diffuser? Anyway I think that at this point it went as I described, we will see in the next races which bottom they will trust to see if the one in Suzuka is actually the right bottom

[diffuser]

Yeah, I had already read that,wouldn't be the first time a reputable site got things wrong and I found pictures on Motorsport. It wouldn't be the first time they dated pictures incorrectly too.

Brazil Looks like they ran Austin floor
Sprint Quali
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -amr2.webp
Sprint Race
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tin-a.webp
Quali
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -amr2.webp
Race
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tin-a.webp

Both the sprint ones and the ones you sent exactly the same two identical photos. In my opinion they used Suzuka in fp1 and it was fine, since the sprint wasn't very interesting they did two test sessions in sprint quali and sprint race, seeing the results they returned again to Suzuka and in fact Alonso in quali he was flying, after the damage they were forced to return to Austin. This is what I think and what I have deduced, I am ready to be proven wrong

Now do you remember Diffuser? Anyway I think that at this point it went as I described, we will see in the next races which bottom they will trust to see if the one in Suzuka is actually the right bottom

I do now....

I don't think they have any Suzuka floors left. If they has some, they would have used them, no?

[zoroastar]

So that article, point to by KimiRai, Say the upgrades are working "The difficulties arise from those phenomena that cannot be analysed except on the track, such as transients, the transition between the various phases of the curve or the impact between the floor and the ground. “We found that for the most part [the updates] behave as we expect, although sometimes there are slightly underestimated consequences, or others that we are aware of, but which have a heavier impact on performance”, comments Dan Fallows to Racecar Engineering."


It also says they've been testing with different floors.

on the hardware side of things im beginning to think that their overall suspension design is bad, and makes it incredibly hard to bring any parts that work. you see it happening at mercedes too to a lesser extent. no matter what they bring, it starts coming back to porpoising, unable to find a perfect ride height, or unable to ride over curbs, etc. we already know how important the suspension is in this rule set. newey took it as his #1 priority at redbull when they started designing the rb18. they are trying to design their way around something with a fundamental flaw to begin with, or has a lower ceiling for improvements. maybe theyve just been wasting time and money trying to work around something that cant be fixed. at least not "fixed" enough to compete in this close field. i guess its too far along into these rules to start from the ground up anyway.

also, i wonder how long, and how hard it would be for them to figure this out for themselves if they are in their own aston martin bubble. seems like it could be hard to decipher bad suspension/chassis from bad correlation.

It always hard to know how much they say is being "generalized", as to not make it too specific and give something away. I don't think Fallows is pointing to a suspension problem. Even if it was the suspension, you can't build a "good" suspension if you don't know what NOT to do. They are surprised by whatever is occurring. Fallows is suggesting it's aero issue, atleast that's what I got out of the article.

yeah i guess what i was trying to say is, maybe they keep being surprised by nothing working in aero, because their suspension sucks haha. its likely we will never know though. and hopefully they will eventually figure that out if it is the case.