2024 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas Strip, Nov 21 - 23

[_cerber1]

The Mclaren has been faster for the large majority of this season. It was clearly the best car this year and they'll likely still get the WCC from it. There was nothing comfortable about Verstappen's gap whatsoever had Norris/Mclaren simply done better. They had every opportunity to catch up and overtake Verstappen, but their own failures along with Verstappen just being amazing all season made the difference in the end.

Can you give an example of a season when a driver was able to close a 70-point gap?

[marcel171281]

The Mclaren has been faster for the large majority of this season. It was clearly the best car this year and they'll likely still get the WCC from it. There was nothing comfortable about Verstappen's gap whatsoever had Norris/Mclaren simply done better. They had every opportunity to catch up and overtake Verstappen, but their own failures along with Verstappen just being amazing all season made the difference in the end.

Can you give an example of a season when a driver was able to close a 70-point gap?

Can you give an example of a season with 24 races, 6 sprint race and 24 extra point for fastest laps?

70 points is nothing in todays F1!

[venkyhere]

With a competent driver in the other seat RBR was winning the WCC as well, you all know this as well because you say this in the Red Bull Team thread when Checo comes up.

Never said this anywhere. I think you have the wrong guy.

[Vettel165]

After Monza I was very worried as a Max fan. I thought the title was sliping away. But he and some of the working updates in Austin, Brasil and in Singapore saved the year. And many more before of course.

[Cs98]

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

In a 24 race season having a great car for the first 5 races isn't nearly enough on its own. Verstappen did maximize those races and managed to build a 52 point lead by round 5. Since then he has extended that 52 point lead to a 63 point lead. However you slice it, the McLaren has been a better car (in terms of speed AND reliability) in the 17 rounds since then, but somehow Lando hasn't made up a single point. In light of that statistic I feel it is kind of irrelevant and reductive to argue about this "buffer", or when exactly the RB dropped off. The insane thing is he hasn't closed anything, the buffer hasn't even been used.

[Seanspeed]

The Mclaren has been faster for the large majority of this season. It was clearly the best car this year and they'll likely still get the WCC from it. There was nothing comfortable about Verstappen's gap whatsoever had Norris/Mclaren simply done better. They had every opportunity to catch up and overtake Verstappen, but their own failures along with Verstappen just being amazing all season made the difference in the end.

Can you give an example of a season when a driver was able to close a 70-point gap?

Why do you think there's something special about a points gap? It's not some magical force that then makes it harder for somebody else to do well. And it's not like something like today where Lewis had to push harder to try and reduce the gap to Russell, eventually fading his tires too much before the end. There was nothing stopping Lando from being able to do something about the points situation given the twenty four race weekends, and extra sprint and fastest lap points opportunities.

The only thing that matters here is that Lando spent the large majority of this long season with the fastest car and didn't score enough points over that timespan as a competitor did in an ultimately slower car.

[dialtone]

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

In a 24 race season having a great car for the first 5 races isn't nearly enough on its own. Verstappen did maximize those races and managed to build a 52 point lead by round 5. Since then he has extended that 52 point lead to a 63 point lead. However you slice it, the McLaren has been a better car (in terms of speed AND reliability) in the 17 rounds since then, but somehow Lando hasn't made up a single point. In light of that statistic I feel it is kind of irrelevant and reductive to argue about this "buffer", or when exactly the RB dropped off. The insane thing is he hasn't closed anything, the buffer hasn't even been used.

That’s certainly reductive. Again Lando still worse but it’s easier to divebomb or defend to crash when you are 50 points up.

Lando was too worried to lose than trying to win. In Austria he should have taken Max out to set the precedent, instead he was the one taken out.

[Cs98]

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

In a 24 race season having a great car for the first 5 races isn't nearly enough on its own. Verstappen did maximize those races and managed to build a 52 point lead by round 5. Since then he has extended that 52 point lead to a 63 point lead. However you slice it, the McLaren has been a better car (in terms of speed AND reliability) in the 17 rounds since then, but somehow Lando hasn't made up a single point. In light of that statistic I feel it is kind of irrelevant and reductive to argue about this "buffer", or when exactly the RB dropped off. The insane thing is he hasn't closed anything, the buffer hasn't even been used.

That’s certainly reductive. Again Lando still worse but it’s easier to divebomb or defend to crash when you are 50 points up.

Lando was too worried to lose than trying to win. In Austria he should have taken Max out to set the precedent, instead he was the one taken out.

When you are in a faster car you should not be dependent on your main competitor being nice to you on track to close a points gap. He's had almost the entire season and made no inroads.

[RonMexico]

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

In a 24 race season having a great car for the first 5 races isn't nearly enough on its own. Verstappen did maximize those races and managed to build a 52 point lead by round 5. Since then he has extended that 52 point lead to a 63 point lead. However you slice it, the McLaren has been a better car (in terms of speed AND reliability) in the 17 rounds since then, but somehow Lando hasn't made up a single point. In light of that statistic I feel it is kind of irrelevant and reductive to argue about this "buffer", or when exactly the RB dropped off. The insane thing is he hasn't closed anything, the buffer hasn't even been used.

That’s certainly reductive. Again Lando still worse but it’s easier to divebomb or defend to crash when you are 50 points up.

Lando was too worried to lose than trying to win. In Austria he should have taken Max out to set the precedent, instead he was the one taken out.

Thats surely backwards. What did Norris have to lose?!

Enough of the excuses. He had the fastest car for the majority of the season.

Verstappen even said he would have won the Championship earlier in the year of he was driving a McLaren.

[Juzh]

4th best car it has never been.

U wot m8?
monza - clear 4th
mexico - clear 4th, was dropping back from mercedes (haas faster in final stint even)

[TNTHead]

(the only exception is Austria, where Norris came worse off a wheel to wheel battle, suffering more damage than Max. Hence can't blame Norris not picking up points there). [/i].

One could argue that the damage of Norris' car after the contact in Austria was largely self inflicted: he blasted with too high speed back to pits whereby the punctured tire destroyed the floor while VER was going back to the pit with a more moderate speed eager not to destroy his floor. These details add up to all the moments where VER took advantage.

[venkyhere]

The word 'dominant' was used in the context of the MCL38 being a minimum 0.3-0.4s per lap superior in race pace, for a period between Canada and Monza (when Ferrari finally fixed their floor and emerged as a challenger). If that word isn't "sitting well" with some of you, fine.

Let's recourse to the world of objective stats. Check whether you can agree with the data :

VER NOR
-----------
pre-
miami 110 58


imola 25 18
monaco 8 12
canada 25 18
spain 25 19
Austr 18 6
stone 18 15
hung 10 18
spa 12 10
zand 18 26
monza 8 16
baku 10 13
singa 18 25
cota 23 18
mex 8 18
--------------
post-
miami
pre-
brazil 226 232


miami 26 25
brazil 31 16
vegas 10 9
-----------
leftovers 67 50

Post Miami, before Brazil :
Will you agree that McLaren was the faster car than Redbull, over this period atleast ? sometimes by a little bit, sometimes by a large margin. All times with better tyre deg.
Is 232 v 226 enough to show for it ? Just 6 points ?
This is where Mclaren blew their chances (whether driver or team or both) to mount a challenge for WDC.

[dialtone]

Nobody argued differently venky.

[Seanspeed]

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

In a 24 race season having a great car for the first 5 races isn't nearly enough on its own. Verstappen did maximize those races and managed to build a 52 point lead by round 5. Since then he has extended that 52 point lead to a 63 point lead. However you slice it, the McLaren has been a better car (in terms of speed AND reliability) in the 17 rounds since then, but somehow Lando hasn't made up a single point. In light of that statistic I feel it is kind of irrelevant and reductive to argue about this "buffer", or when exactly the RB dropped off. The insane thing is he hasn't closed anything, the buffer hasn't even been used.

That’s certainly reductive. Again Lando still worse but it’s easier to divebomb or defend to crash when you are 50 points up.

These direct controversial battles only happened like a couple times, and Max ultimately ended up on worse off for it in the end when he was penalized multiple times in Mexico City for some pretty blatant and egregious moves.

It does nothing whatsoever to explain Norris' inability to make up ground over the whole season in a clearly faster car, whatever the case. Just a weird thing to bring up.