2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Sergej]

Wache not confident about their 2025 prospects:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/red-b ... /10676601/

well if you read carefully the article, he makes a quite more complex argument than just "I'm not confident, 2025 is a write off", of course autosport needed a click bait title

nevertheless, I am of the same bottom idea and I don't very much expect Max to be in title contention next year, I see Ferrari and maybe McLaren a step ahead.

[Rikhart]

Wache not confident about their 2025 prospects:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/red-b ... /10676601/

I much rather they have this attitude, and then positively surprise, than be arrogant about their prospects and then fail.

I loved this quote:

However, Wache sees his lack of optimism as a potential strength, because his downbeat assessment will force the team to dig deeper and find extra potential with its RB21.

“If you have confidence in this business, you are dead,” he said. “You have to work hard, and everybody has to, in the team, work hard. Everybody's working hard.

“When you see the number of people we have trying to find a very small amount of performance and add and add and add everywhere, it is a very difficult task.

“I have a lack of confidence, because if I have confidence, you go to sleep, you don't go to work, and then you don't find performance.”

[Cs98]

Wache not confident about their 2025 prospects:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/red-b ... /10676601/

Idk, seems like he is making more of a philosophical argument about why you shouldn't be confident in F1 generally. I think RB (Max) have as good a chance as anyone if they improve their mechanical platform and aerodynamic performance. These last couple of races should give us a clue if they have the right direction.

[AR3-GP]

How could the RB21 be worse than the RB20? I think there's reason to be optimistic that they will fix some of the issues. It would be incredible to spend an entire winter developing a new car and it's just as bad as the old one. I find that unlikely.

[f1isgood]

How could the RB21 be worse than the RB20? I think there's reason to be optimistic that they will fix some of the issues. It would be incredible to spend an entire winter developing a new car and it's just as bad as the old one. I find that unlikely.

With all due disrespect to the Rb20, it was still a car enough to win both titles (which require things like Operations, Driver and Strategy) to come together. Perez cost RB the WCC this year.


Ultimately for any team the aim is WDC and WCC, and RB20 car that the technical team made was good enough, just not good enough to win things comfortably. It's a relative game, and competition becoming serious after 1/4th of the season also shows RB did a better job at least for ~4 to 5 races.

[AR3-GP]

With all due disrespect to the Rb20, it was still a car enough to win both titles (which require things like Operations, Driver and Strategy) to come together. Perez cost RB the WCC this year.

The WCC is of no consideration in my perspective. It is only based on consideration of the fastest car of each team each weekend. Red Bull went 10 races without a win due to a lack of pace. That says enough. Whether they won the WCC because Perez scored slightly more points or not will not change the fact that the RB20 and it's development was an objective failure. A good car doesn't go on a 10-race losing streak after it has been "upgraded"... Red Bull's losing streak is longer than that of any other top 4 team this year (well technically about the same as Mercedes, but have you seen Mercedes this year... ). Neither of Mercedes or Red Bull should be happy with their cars this year.

[f1isgood]

With all due disrespect to the Rb20, it was still a car enough to win both titles (which require things like Operations, Driver and Strategy) to come together. Perez cost RB the WCC this year.

The WCC is of no consideration in my perspective. It is only based on consideration of the fastest car of each team each weekend. Red Bull went 10 races without a win due to a lack of pace. That says enough. Whether they won the WCC because Perez scored slightly more points or not will not change the fact that the RB20 and it's development was an objective failure. A good car doesn't go on a 10-race losing streak after it has been "upgraded"... Red Bull's losing streak is longer than that of any other top 4 team this year (well technically about the same as Mercedes, but have you seen Mercedes this year... ). Neither of Mercedes or Red Bull should be happy with their cars this year.

Sure, you are right that they won't be happy. And they shouldnt be since the fall is insane after 2023.

Should have phrased what I wanted to say different. My point is that it could always be worse and even this dog of a car was good enough for both titles. IMO, if they can win both titles by winning ~10 races next year as well, I will take it. Just need the car to be always there and not drop off like it did this year.

Anyways, I just hope the RB21 doesn't have some fundamental issues and can happily adapt to all bells and whistles that other teams use. RB18,19 and 20 had fundamental issues. RB20 is still the class of the field in very high speed corners. Let's see what happens in Qatar.

[chrisc90]

Interview with F1 with Max as a 4x World Champion

[venkyhere]

Qoute I heard/read about GP's interview with F1tv :
"....and the scariest thing for the others on the grid, is that Max is getting better as a driver, with each passing year"

[Waz]

Red Bull Racing has had a big upheaval this year, losing some very valuable people along the way.

And that definitely showed with this year being the first I can remember of the team introducing failed upgrades and not knowing where the problem is for a number of races.

[venkyhere]

Red Bull Racing has had a big upheaval this year, losing some very valuable people along the way.

And that definitely showed with this year being the first I can remember of the team introducing failed upgrades and not knowing where the problem is for a number of races.

Towards the middle of the season, we saw RBR fall into the same 'update-pit' that Mercedes F1 team have found themselves in for 3 yrs - upgrade becoming downgrade, not having any setup window where the car can work on all corners and straights of a track, tyre life falling off a cliff... But unlike Mercedes, they didn't go via 'experiment' route. Just before Singapore, they realized it was a correlation problem, and that any setup obtained from simulator tuning before a race, was proving worthless as the starting point on a race weekend. Then on, they used track-obtained data to setup the car (the old fashioned way) and more or less have brought back the car to 'drivable' levels, even if not 'optimal' level. The car is inherently poorer than the Mclaren and the Ferrari (with it's new floor), but unlike Mercedes, haven't gone to 'la la land of unpredicability' . So I think RBR have 'bounced back' much better in adversity, they didn't 'lose' more than half the season.

[Wouter]

[Vettel165]

Red Bull Racing has had a big upheaval this year, losing some very valuable people along the way.

And that definitely showed with this year being the first I can remember of the team introducing failed upgrades and not knowing where the problem is for a number of races.

Towards the middle of the season, we saw RBR fall into the same 'update-pit' that Mercedes F1 team have found themselves in for 3 yrs - upgrade becoming downgrade, not having any setup window where the car can work on all corners and straights of a track, tyre life falling off a cliff... But unlike Mercedes, they didn't go via 'experiment' route. Just before Singapore, they realized it was a correlation problem, and that any setup obtained from simulator tuning before a race, was proving worthless as the starting point on a race weekend. Then on, they used track-obtained data to setup the car (the old fashioned way) and more or less have brought back the car to 'drivable' levels, even if not 'optimal' level. The car is inherently poorer than the Mclaren and the Ferrari (with it's new floor), but unlike Mercedes, haven't gone to 'la la land of unpredicability' . So I think RBR have 'bounced back' much better in adversity, they didn't 'lose' more than half the season.

And also they found the problem right in time. Because 2025 could been much worse, if they didnt trying to fix this. Also as being third in WCC we will have more resources for the new car and wind tunnel time. Could prove crucial. Give Max at least the second best car, and he will still win some races and consistently finish on the podium.

[ME4ME]

Personally I do not share the optimism regarding a "bounch back" on Red Bulls part.

If you track Leclerc vs Verstappen for example, on race day, and ignore wet-weather Brasil for a moment, you'd have to go back a long way to find that Verstappen in the RB20 actually had more performance.

Vegas Ferrari was quicker. Mexico and Austin, Ferrari was way quicker. Singapore, Leclerc shouldn've been a close P2 to Norris if they hadn't messed up. Monza, Red Bull was nowhere. Baku, i'd say slightly behind Ferrari.

Unless Red Bull make real gains to the order of several tenths per lap, Verstappen is at risk of falling behind Leclerc, Hamilton and Norris next year.

[TNTHead]

Personally I do not share the optimism regarding a "bounch back" on Red Bulls part.

If you track Leclerc vs Verstappen for example, on race day, and ignore wet-weather Brasil for a moment, you'd have to go back a long way to find that Verstappen in the RB20 actually had more performance.

Vegas Ferrari was quicker. Mexico and Austin, Ferrari was way quicker. Singapore, Leclerc shouldn've been a close P2 to Norris if they hadn't messed up. Monza, Red Bull was nowhere. Baku, i'd say slightly behind Ferrari.

Unless Red Bull make real gains to the order of several tenths per lap, Verstappen is at risk of falling behind Leclerc, Hamilton and Norris next year.

The big question is, how much pace can be unlocked with improving the suspension/aero combo or are they at the end of their potential. They've changed from leading the pack to chasing the front runners. McL / Ferrari show which way to go.