2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[OverheatedTurbo]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this question but what causes this single seater to be so bad with the rear tires? I know “low aeromap” and “stiff suspension” gets thrown here a lot, but surely there is much more to this than that, right?

[KimiRai]

Verstappen, Norris, Räikkönen aren't feeding conspiracy theories like Lewis when George is dealing with Merc's screw ups also.

This thread needs more Raikkonen discussion. It'd make it more interesting.

Kimi's fans did create a whole conspiracy theory about Santander and why he was kicked out of Ferrari the first time... I would know because of my username

[Alex_Z]

Why can't Lewis show frustration and vent during the race without the usual suspects in this thread labeling him as childish, playing the victim, or unprofessional? Meanwhile, drivers like Max Verstappen, Lando Norris, and Kimi Raikkonen often swear, lash out, or disrespect their engineers on the radio, yet they’re praised as brutally honest and authentic. Many users display unconscious racial bias against Lewis, and for certain users in this thread (they know who they are), it is a conscious choice. He isn’t afforded the same grace and leeway to express frustration as white drivers—Tsunoda is another driver who’s experienced similar treatment. It pains them a black driver is the most successful of all time

I feel exactly the same way. Well said and agree with everything you said. I don’t understand it either

Miserable racists who despair that a black man is the most successful athlete in a white dominated sport. There is not much else to understand. Tiger Woods, Serena Williams, Arthur Ashe, Jackie Robinson etc have all faced the similar scrutiny in their respective sports

[deadhead]

Have to wonder what percentage of the Mercedes fanbase are mostly just Hamilton fans... I guess we will get some indication in the next 2-3 years

[CMSMJ1]

Why can't Lewis show frustration and vent during the race without the usual suspects in this thread labeling him as childish, playing the victim, or unprofessional? Meanwhile, drivers like Max Verstappen, Lando Norris, and Kimi Raikkonen often swear, lash out, or disrespect their engineers on the radio, yet they’re praised as brutally honest and authentic. Many users display unconscious racial bias against Lewis, and for certain users in this thread (they know who they are), it is a conscious choice. He isn’t afforded the same grace and leeway to express frustration as white drivers—Tsunoda is another driver who’s experienced similar treatment. It pains them a black driver is the most successful of all time

I feel exactly the same way. Well said and agree with everything you said. I don’t understand it either

Miserable racists who despair that a black man is the most successful athlete in a white dominated sport. There is not much else to understand. Tiger Woods, Serena Williams, Arthur Ashe, Jackie Robinson etc have all faced the similar scrutiny in their respective sports

Last post on this please.

It's not acceptable to call everyone racists as has been your style previously.

If you wish to discuss, send me and the mod team a PM

[PlatinumZealot]

I thought so too. Like I said, everything that happens to George is normal, but help me God, if something is wrong with Lewis. He has built this victim's temple around him this year. Ocon had no pit crew in Vegas when he pitted. No one cared or shouted conspiracy.

Is that profile photo of a Ferrari driver? Or McLaren driver?

It's a photo of Kimi Räikkönen.

Oooh. Was hard to make out. Well thanks for joining the Mercedes 2024 thread. I suppose you wanted to get a preview of debating on Lewis Hamilton in preparation for Scuderia Ferrari team thread 2025?

[PlatinumZealot]

This thread needs more Raikkonen discussion. It'd make it more interesting.

Isn't the Raikkonen cult extinct now? It really took a hard long biding of time and many squeezing of prayer beads to outlive it!!

Was a big relief when it died! I'm not sure you want to revive that!

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Verstappen, Norris, Räikkönen aren't feeding conspiracy theories like Lewis when George is dealing with Merc's screw ups also.

This thread needs more Raikkonen discussion. It'd make it more interesting.

Kimi's fans did create a whole conspiracy theory about Santander and why he was kicked out of Ferrari the first time... I would know because of my username

Wasn't it obvious that Santander slammed the money on the table, and Ferrari signed Alonso so Räikkönen would make room?

[Matt2725]

Like I said. Can we get back to serious commentary yet?

Rather than out of context asinine commentary designed to start arguments yet again?

Also the W15 apparently guided by George won 4 races unlike the previous year which won none. So he can't be that bad at pushing development.

It's also the most inconsistent car they've driven according to both drivers that mostly works in uncommon track conditions and all of the WDC/WCC positions are lower than last years.

Well George went from 8th last year to 6th this year and Lewis went from 3rd to 7th this year, but I wouldn't say there was an improvement there in the car just because it won 4 races, two of which relied on rain.

Your premise is based on a false assumption that the performance of their competitors remained static from 2023 to 2024. The car this year is probably as close to the front runners as they've ever been in this reg set. Just their competitors are that slightly bit ahead, or maybe a touch behind from race to race.

[Farnborough]

Like I said. Can we get back to serious commentary yet?

Rather than out of context asinine commentary designed to start arguments yet again?

Also the W15 apparently guided by George won 4 races unlike the previous year which won none. So he can't be that bad at pushing development.

It's also the most inconsistent car they've driven according to both drivers that mostly works in uncommon track conditions and all of the WDC/WCC positions are lower than last years.

Well George went from 8th last year to 6th this year and Lewis went from 3rd to 7th this year, but I wouldn't say there was an improvement there in the car just because it won 4 races, two of which relied on rain.

Your premise is based on a false assumption that the performance of their competitors remained static from 2023 to 2024. The car this year is probably as close to the front runners as they've ever been in this reg set. Just their competitors are that slightly bit ahead, or maybe a touch behind from race to race.

The W13 looked, in championship placement, to get there from team and driver operational competence with notable poor technical/design contribution. Also influenced in championship standings by teams other than RB being sub par in many aspect of overall performance.

W14 similar in its ultimate technical competence severely lacking a rounded performance, let off the hook by other teams focus.

W15, thought this was major Lewis influence of weight distribution etc to move more toward other team designs. Relatively a higher performance of the three iteration MB in this rule era. But now with ferocious opposition in immediate competition, both technical performance and team operational focus for all front four team.

This is evidenced by so many different 2024 winners, validation of this rules set in more equal performance from car to car. Everyone is so close to pace, with only a cough or stutter to fire you backward if concentration slips even slightly.

[Seanspeed]

Miserable racists who despair that a black man is the most successful athlete in a white dominated sport. There is not much else to understand. Tiger Woods, Serena Williams, Arthur Ashe, Jackie Robinson etc have all faced the similar scrutiny in their respective sports

I've no doubt there are racists out there who dislike Lewis for that reason, but it's more likely that he has the number of haters because he was dominant for so long. Every top tier driver with a dominant period gets plenty of haters. That's just a fact. Schumacher, Vettel, Lewis and now Max. All sport(or sported) legions of haters.

I also think there's some things to criticize about Lewis from a personality perspective and how he tries to ingrain himself in 'celebrity culture' and whatnot, which obviously is gonna turn many off. And he can come off as quite fake at times, for whatever potentially valid or less so reasons.

What goes along with all this is of course the other side of the coin - legions of diehard fans who are equally unreasonable and who do nothing but rail against 'the haters' and make poorly supported assumptions or conspiracies about why people 'hate' their driver, even when the criticism is really not all that harsh to begin with. For many of these fans, no criticism is at all acceptable because they are so emotionally invested in worshipping this driver that they take 'attacks' on them as attacks on themselves.

Obviously most all this stuff applies to all kinds of sports, it's far from unique to F1.

[Luscion]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this question but what causes this single seater to be so bad with the rear tires? I know “low aeromap” and “stiff suspension” gets thrown here a lot, but surely there is much more to this than that, right?

Article from today, talks about Lewis' struggles with the car but you get the general idea of why it overheats its rears
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/arti ... k4gnzgv3no

Shovlin says: "If you look for a common theme, we have a car that is difficult to turn in the slower corners, and the way the drivers have to turn it is by sliding the rear on the way in and sliding the rear on the power on the way out.

"That adds [tyre] temperature, and dealing with that problem Lewis has found quite difficult.

"You could argue that Lewis was head and shoulders the best in the previous set of regulations. He certainly found driving the cars second nature.

"Lewis would set up the car so that, as the [rear of the] car came up [during braking] and you gained pitch, it would help you turn the car, and he relied on those elements. And that was how you generated performance in the previous set of regulations.

"He has struggled more with the way these cars run. These cars you need to run lower, you need to run stiffer, they are banging into the ground more, you haven't got as much movement in the platform from low to high speed."

[dren]

Verstappen, Norris, Räikkönen aren't feeding conspiracy theories like Lewis when George is dealing with Merc's screw ups also.

This thread needs more Raikkonen discussion. It'd make it more interesting.

Kimi's fans did create a whole conspiracy theory about Santander and why he was kicked out of Ferrari the first time... I would know because of my username

Wasn't it obvious that Santander slammed the money on the table, and Ferrari signed Alonso so Räikkönen would make room?

I just think it's great that Raikkonen is Ferrari's last WDC.

[PlatinumZealot]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this question but what causes this single seater to be so bad with the rear tires? I know “low aeromap” and “stiff suspension” gets thrown here a lot, but surely there is much more to this than that, right?

Article from today, talks about Lewis' struggles with the car but you get the general idea of why it overheats its rears
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/arti ... k4gnzgv3no

Shovlin says: "If you look for a common theme, we have a car that is difficult to turn in the slower corners, and the way the drivers have to turn it is by sliding the rear on the way in and sliding the rear on the power on the way out.

"That adds [tyre] temperature, and dealing with that problem Lewis has found quite difficult.

"You could argue that Lewis was head and shoulders the best in the previous set of regulations. He certainly found driving the cars second nature.

"Lewis would set up the car so that, as the [rear of the] car came up [during braking] and you gained pitch, it would help you turn the car, and he relied on those elements. And that was how you generated performance in the previous set of regulations.

"He has struggled more with the way these cars run. These cars you need to run lower, you need to run stiffer, they are banging into the ground more, you haven't got as much movement in the platform from low to high speed."

Very good. Very good.

This explains our suspicions. This generation of cars just doesn't feel natural to the older drivers. And the Mercedes is the lowest and the stiffest!!

Alonso too is slower than ge would have been. Stroll shouldn't be so close to Alonso.

The younger drivers joined when the cars were boats. So they adjusted better.

[djones]

Have to wonder what percentage of the Mercedes fanbase are mostly just Hamilton fans... I guess we will get some indication in the next 2-3 years

I'd imagine that given the vast majority of people will support Lewis instead of Geroge and the vast majority support a driver, not a team, it will be something like 70% of fans will move away from Mercedes.

If a known driver with an existing fan base was coming to replace him then that would fill some of the gap - but it's not the case.