2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[ScuderiaLeo]

We all saw this at Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes this year. Charles needed a Hulkenberg/Bottas next to him, not a Lewis Hamilton.

I don't agree. I think Leclerc is someone who is extremely motivated by beating his teammate, if not only because he wants to be the one to win for Ferrari, not somebody else. Therefore, he needs a teammate who will push him, not someone who's always 5 positions behind. He's talked about how beating Vettel was a huge motivation for him in 2019. And Jock Clear recently said that after Singapore 2023, Leclerc doubled down extra hard on his training because he hated missing out on the only non-Red Bull win. And it clearly worked, because he made huge improvements in the latter half of 2023 and in 2024.

Leclerc didn't "lose" many points to Sainz this season, so I'm not sure where the line of thinking that they were taking points off each other comes from. Leclerc/Sainz were not comparable at all to Norris/Piastri, who very obviously had to give up points to each other.

On the subject of whether Hamilton is a good choice or not, Ferrari doesn't need Hamilton to be in WDC form to be an asset. They just need someone who can consistently bring in points. Now, I don't know if Hamilton will be better than Sainz in this regard, but I don't think Hamilton will be dead weight like some are implying. He has fantastic race pace still, and like I've said before, him and Leclerc are well aligned in the sense they both like doing long stints.

[GrizzleBoy]

I think people forget just how much of a Ferrari man Charles is. You could see on his on board after the race he was so gutted/frustrated they didn't get the WCC he barely knew what to do with his hands.

There are not many drivers who have true passion for their team.

[CRazyLemon]

There's an observation of Max I made when he stopped being on pole. On his starts (ignoring yesterday) he is always calm when in the middle of the pack and almost always makes up ground. Leclerc has seemed to have picked that up now. It's been noticeable since Austin. Keeping it calm and letting opportunity open up for him. If we have a good car next year, he is ready for a WDC fight.

[Vanja #66]

WCC points, final standings:

2004 - 628, 34.9 points per race (latest points system, 18 races)

2007 – 500, 29.4 points per race (latest points system, 17 races)

2017 – 522, 26.1 points per race (20 races)

2018 – 571, 28.6 points per race (21 races)

2022 – 554, 25.2 points per race (22 races)

2023 - 406, 18.4 points per race (22 races)

2024 – 652, 27.2 points per race (24 races)

In my view, Vasseur's team operated on a higher level than any Ferrari team since 2007. In 2008 Domenicalli failed to keep Raikkonnen motivated, I have no idea what was the reason. After Hungary 2009 accident, Massa was no longer the same when paired with Alonso and Vettel-Raikkonen era was already very bad in too many aspects, very similar to 2022. Points per race may have been better in 2018 and there were Sprints this year, but in 19 of 21 races in 2018 there should have been only Mercedes and Ferrari fighting for wins, while this year there were 7 drivers with 2 or more wins... No excuses next year, they aim to fight for both titles and win them

[Sphere3758]

We all saw this at Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes this year. Charles needed a Hulkenberg/Bottas next to him, not a Lewis Hamilton.

I don't agree. I think Leclerc is someone who is extremely motivated by beating his teammate, if not only because he wants to be the one to win for Ferrari, not somebody else. Therefore, he needs a teammate who will push him, not someone who's always 5 positions behind. He's talked about how beating Vettel was a huge motivation for him in 2019. And Jock Clear recently said that after Singapore 2023, Leclerc doubled down extra hard on his training because he hated missing out on the only non-Red Bull win. And it clearly worked, because he made huge improvements in the latter half of 2023 and in 2024.

Leclerc didn't "lose" many points to Sainz this season, so I'm not sure where the line of thinking that they were taking points off each other comes from. Leclerc/Sainz were not comparable at all to Norris/Piastri, who very obviously had to give up points to each other.

On the subject of whether Hamilton is a good choice or not, Ferrari doesn't need Hamilton to be in WDC form to be an asset. They just need someone who can consistently bring in points. Now, I don't know if Hamilton will be better than Sainz in this regard, but I don't think Hamilton will be dead weight like some are implying. He has fantastic race pace still, and like I've said before, him and Leclerc are well aligned in the sense they both like doing long stints.

That doesnt speak highly of Charles though, does it? Max nearly won every race in 2023 in a near flawless season of absolute dominance with Checo as a teammate. Rest assured,he would have done the same this year had the Redbull stayed close to its early season dominance. He hated being beaten by Checo too.

We all remember him pitting on the last lap in Austria to go for the fastest lap, even though it felt completely unnecessary. You should not need a teammate to push you, the goal is the WCC/WDC and winning as many races as you can. Motivated people can find motivation anywhere, Max was trying to get the most points ever last year as a motivator.

I dont believe Charles needs the teammate push btw. All he needs is a team focused on him and a good consistent car. Given Mercedes troubles this regulation set, I fail to see how Lewis will help make the car more consistent. We all realize that the driver has very little role to play in all of this.

My point is not about Lewis being a dead weight, it is the opposite. A motivated Lewis will not make life easy for Charles. While it might make for great TV viewership, it is going to make the WDC a much harder challenge for both.

[chrisc90]

Does anyone know what the strategy would have been for Charles at the start of the ace given they said he has to trust them to take the risks theybplannes?

I mean, I guess once he was up to P8 on the first lap, it could have blown that plan out the window a bit?

[Vanja #66]

Does anyone know what the strategy would have been for Charles at the start of the ace given they said he has to trust them to take the risks theybplannes?

I mean, I guess once he was up to P8 on the first lap, it could have blown that plan out the window a bit?

There was a risk getting stuck in a DRS train from lap 2 on Mediums, that would have put a nail in the coffin. With a bit of an early pit stop, there was also a risk of running Hards over the cliff towards the end. In both cases, the driver made it work and made the difference. Conservative strategy would have been to do what Hamilton did, Hards for the 1st stint, wait for everyone to clear away, extend the stint and finally use Mediums for a big lap time advantage in the last 20 laps.

[SharkY]

How was Charles pace compared to Norris?

In the first half of stint on hards, Charles was consitently 0,1-0,2s faster in S1, they were on par through the straights, but he lost around 0,4-0,5s in S3 (especially T13-14).
Then the pace dropped (graining, I guess) around lap 40 and his S1 advantage has gone away. Norris had the same problem a few laps later, while Leclerc was recovering, so that on laps 47-51 they were very similar. Laps 52 onwards, Charles dropped pace again (maybe tyres were giving up), while Lando unleashed a rocketship and was lapping 1,0-0,5s faster, but ultimately couldn't or didn't want to push so much and was dropping too.

Looking at the beginning of the hard stint, Carlos didn't gain as much in S1 as Charles, but was faster in the straights. But he was also losing a lot in S3.

[r85]

Does anyone know what the strategy would have been for Charles at the start of the ace given they said he has to trust them to take the risks theybplannes?

I mean, I guess once he was up to P8 on the first lap, it could have blown that plan out the window a bit?

There was a risk getting stuck in a DRS train from lap 2 on Mediums, that would have put a nail in the coffin. With a bit of an early pit stop, there was also a risk of running Hards over the cliff towards the end. In both cases, the driver made it work and made the difference. Conservative strategy would have been to do what Hamilton did, Hards for the 1st stint, wait for everyone to clear away, extend the stint and finally use Mediums for a big lap time advantage in the last 20 laps.

I'd argue that the H-M was the fastest strategy actually. Charles did a stellar job at managing his race to finish P3, but if he and Hamilton are together after the opening lap then there's no chance he finishes on the podium. Wouldn't the strategy work better for Ferrari anyway? Carlos seemed pretty strong on the mediums but couldn't touch Norris on the hards.

[SiLo]

Does anyone know what the strategy would have been for Charles at the start of the ace given they said he has to trust them to take the risks theybplannes?

I mean, I guess once he was up to P8 on the first lap, it could have blown that plan out the window a bit?

There was a risk getting stuck in a DRS train from lap 2 on Mediums, that would have put a nail in the coffin. With a bit of an early pit stop, there was also a risk of running Hards over the cliff towards the end. In both cases, the driver made it work and made the difference. Conservative strategy would have been to do what Hamilton did, Hards for the 1st stint, wait for everyone to clear away, extend the stint and finally use Mediums for a big lap time advantage in the last 20 laps.

Considering how close Hamilton was at the end, his was the better strategy as it relied on less luck (luck being Charles having the red sea part for him to make up a bunch of positions).

[Vanja #66]

I'd argue that the H-M was the fastest strategy actually. Charles did a stellar job at managing his race to finish P3, but if he and Hamilton are together after the opening lap then there's no chance he finishes on the podium. Wouldn't the strategy work better for Ferrari anyway? Carlos seemed pretty strong on the mediums but couldn't touch Norris on the hards.

I can't give a definitive verdict tbh, both drivers executed their strategies the best way possible and achieved maximum points with Verstappen and Piastri's incidents. Perhaps Leclerc would have had much more trouble turning Hards on in heavy traffic and he definitely wouldn't have been able to pass 11 drivers to P8 in 1 lap

Considering how close Hamilton was at the end, his was the better strategy as it relied on less luck (luck being Charles having the red sea part for him to make up a bunch of positions).

There was no luck if you ask me, he took a lot of risk when he was on the inside of T1 and was able to outbreak the midfield when he took the outside of those corners. Taking such opportunities reminded me of Alonso

[ScuderiaLeo]

That doesnt speak highly of Charles though, does it? Max nearly won every race in 2023 in a near flawless season of absolute dominance with Checo as a teammate. Rest assured,he would have done the same this year had the Redbull stayed close to its early season dominance. He hated being beaten by Checo too.

We all remember him pitting on the last lap in Austria to go for the fastest lap, even though it felt completely unnecessary. You should not need a teammate to push you, the goal is the WCC/WDC and winning as many races as you can. Motivated people can find motivation anywhere, Max was trying to get the most points ever last year as a motivator.

I dont believe Charles needs the teammate push btw. All he needs is a team focused on him and a good consistent car. Given Mercedes troubles this regulation set, I fail to see how Lewis will help make the car more consistent. We all realize that the driver has very little role to play in all of this.

My point is not about Lewis being a dead weight, it is the opposite. A motivated Lewis will not make life easy for Charles. While it might make for great TV viewership, it is going to make the WDC a much harder challenge for both.

Obviously all of these athletes are hypercompetitive so they will always be pushing themselves regardless of who they're against. But I don't think it's false to say many athletes are bolstered by wanting to beat their teammate. Their teammate is their most relevant performance benchmark and it's often what they're judged on.

If Hamilton doesn't find his peak form again, that's fine because I trust Leclerc to go for the WDC if it's available. As I said in my above comment, what matters most is that Hamilton is a good driver still - which he is. If he does magically regain his form, that's also fine because it means a higher chance of winning the WCC and possibly the WDC in the process. But I think the former is more likely than the latter.

That is to mean - I think Hamilton will be an asset to the team in many ways, off track and on track, but he's not going to be the reason Leclerc hypothetically loses a WDC.

I do agree having Hamilton won't make the car any better or worse than it would if they stuck with Sainz. Sainz and Hamilton are both smart and articulate people, I doubt there's anything Hamilton could give feedback on that Sainz could not.

[Sevach]

That doesnt speak highly of Charles though, does it? Max nearly won every race in 2023 in a near flawless season of absolute dominance with Checo as a teammate. Rest assured,he would have done the same this year had the Redbull stayed close to its early season dominance. He hated being beaten by Checo too.

We all remember him pitting on the last lap in Austria to go for the fastest lap, even though it felt completely unnecessary. You should not need a teammate to push you, the goal is the WCC/WDC and winning as many races as you can. Motivated people can find motivation anywhere, Max was trying to get the most points ever last year as a motivator.

I dont believe Charles needs the teammate push btw. All he needs is a team focused on him and a good consistent car. Given Mercedes troubles this regulation set, I fail to see how Lewis will help make the car more consistent. We all realize that the driver has very little role to play in all of this.

My point is not about Lewis being a dead weight, it is the opposite. A motivated Lewis will not make life easy for Charles. While it might make for great TV viewership, it is going to make the WDC a much harder challenge for both.

Obviously all of these athletes are hypercompetitive so they will always be pushing themselves regardless of who they're against. But I don't think it's false to say many athletes are bolstered by wanting to beat their teammate. Their teammate is their most relevant performance benchmark and it's often what they're judged on.

If Hamilton doesn't find his peak form again, that's fine because I trust Leclerc to go for the WDC if it's available. As I said in my above comment, what matters most is that Hamilton is a good driver still - which he is. If he does magically regain his form, that's also fine because it means a higher chance of winning the WCC and possibly the WDC in the process. But I think the former is more likely than the latter.

That is to mean - I think Hamilton will be an asset to the team in many ways, off track and on track, but he's not going to be the reason Leclerc hypothetically loses a WDC.

I do agree having Hamilton won't make the car any better or worse than it would if they stuck with Sainz. Sainz and Hamilton are both smart and articulate people, I doubt there's anything Hamilton could give feedback on that Sainz could not.

To be fair we haven't seen Charles with a non-threatening teammate yet(since Ericsson in his rookie year, does 2020 Vettel count?), maybe he does keep his motivation...

[SiLo]

I'd argue that the H-M was the fastest strategy actually. Charles did a stellar job at managing his race to finish P3, but if he and Hamilton are together after the opening lap then there's no chance he finishes on the podium. Wouldn't the strategy work better for Ferrari anyway? Carlos seemed pretty strong on the mediums but couldn't touch Norris on the hards.

I can't give a definitive verdict tbh, both drivers executed their strategies the best way possible and achieved maximum points with Verstappen and Piastri's incidents. Perhaps Leclerc would have had much more trouble turning Hards on in heavy traffic and he definitely wouldn't have been able to pass 11 drivers to P8 in 1 lap

Considering how close Hamilton was at the end, his was the better strategy as it relied on less luck (luck being Charles having the red sea part for him to make up a bunch of positions).

There was no luck if you ask me, he took a lot of risk when he was on the inside of T1 and was able to outbreak the midfield when he took the outside of those corners. Taking such opportunities reminded me of Alonso

I thought a bunch of cars ended up taking themselves out because of the Perez Bottas contact?

[Vanja #66]

I thought a bunch of cars ended up taking themselves out because of the Perez Bottas contact?

No, he literally just passed Perez and Bottas in T5-6 and they touched as he got into the inside of T6 for P8