2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[-wkst-]

Of course, as many say, it makes no difference where you are in 2025 if you are not fighting for the world championship it is irrelevant. Either you start the season fighting to win or you dedicate yourself directly to 2026, there is no middle ground. In any case, I don't think they will be out of the points zone in 2025, it is still a team that has a lot of funds.

It makes a difference, not matter if your are fighting for the championship or not. For team members, team partners, team sponsors, team shareholders, etc. etc.

And when we look back at the last big regulation changes, the teams who dominated, RBR (2022) and Mercedes (2014), got their things together already the year before under the old rules.

Your technical staff is good or not. Sometimes it needs more guidance (what AMR obviously tries with Cardile and Newey) or other adjustments. But you won't be 7th fastest team in 2025, completely lost and suddenly are at the sharp end at 2026.

[Waz]

Giving up an entire, or even most of a full season to focus on the following year has never worked one time that I can remember. The one exception might be Honda in 2008, with Ross Brawn deciding immediately at abandon the season and spend $400 million on the 09 car.

There are good examples though of teams who gave up a season and flopped miserably into the first year - BMW and Renault in 2008 into 09. Ferrari 2013 into 14, Renault 2020 into 22.

[diffuser]

Giving up an entire, or even most of a full season to focus on the following year has never worked one time that I can remember. The one exception might be Honda in 2008, with Ross Brawn deciding immediately at abandon the season and spend $400 million on the 09 car.

There are good examples though of teams who gave up a season and flopped miserably into the first year - BMW and Renault in 2008 into 09. Ferrari 2013 into 14, Renault 2020 into 22.

Kind of hard to compare pre CAP F1 to post CAP F1. The advantages in funding and infrastructure by the top 4 back in that era was impossible to overcome by a few extra months of dedication to a change in rules. I will add that some teams, like Williams, are still facilities challenged. So are Aston but they should be firing on all cylinders by 2026.

We've seen the effects of the CAP over the last couple of years with the migration of "star" engineers from the big 4 to the rest of F1. The big 4 can nolonger fit all those engineers under their respective CAPs.

[TyreSlip]

An AMuS source posted on the Mercedes thread indicates they may change the rear suspension for next year. It always makes me wonder how "in advance" they inform AM of these changes.

[peewon]

Giving up an entire, or even most of a full season to focus on the following year has never worked one time that I can remember. The one exception might be Honda in 2008, with Ross Brawn deciding immediately at abandon the season and spend $400 million on the 09 car.

There are good examples though of teams who gave up a season and flopped miserably into the first year - BMW and Renault in 2008 into 09. Ferrari 2013 into 14, Renault 2020 into 22.

I don't think 2008 would have worked that well either if Max Moseley and Bernie Ecclestone weren't having the biggest political stand off with the big teams at the time. The ruling that allowed the double diffuser is one of the most asinine interpretations of English language I've ever come across.

Being competitive also lets you stress test all aspects of your team operation. AM haven't been the bets on the grid in terms of their pit and strategy operations. Lots of habits and procedures that get built with repetition and experience. Some concepts may even carry over to the new regulations. Plenty of reasons to put your best foot forward when youve never been a world beater previously.

[Jambier]

The thing is there is not budget issues or lack.
The issue is understanding the car and making it work / progress through the year.

So this is not something about money or ressources.
As we saw Alpine finished well in 2024 despite starting last having a bad engine and not much money.

So yes 2025 is important they absolutely need to get this understanding / correlation and make the car evolve

[SSJ4]

An AMuS source posted on the Mercedes thread indicates they may change the rear suspension for next year. It always makes me wonder how "in advance" they inform AM of these changes.

means fallows was right in a sense when he wasn't happy with the rear suspension for this year.

iirc its quite late i remember james vowles saying It allowed us to start development four months earlier. Wind tunnel runs began in April. That's worth more in laptime than the latest spec parts."

reason why they stuck with previous rear suspension


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... s-technik/

[-wkst-]

AMuS obviously edited the article, because the part with the rear axle or the mention of AMR isn’t in the current article anymore. Strange.

[diffuser]

The thing is there is not budget issues or lack.
The issue is understanding the car and making it work / progress through the year.

So this is not something about money or ressources.
As we saw Alpine finished well in 2024 despite starting last having a bad engine and not much money.

So yes 2025 is important they absolutely need to get this understanding / correlation and make the car evolve

Not saying this is a reason or anything but just an important fact....Alpine(Renault at the time) updated their WT a couple of years prior to Alonso getting there, was that 2021 ?

[jofs89]

Of course, as many say, it makes no difference where you are in 2025 if you are not fighting for the world championship it is irrelevant. Either you start the season fighting to win or you dedicate yourself directly to 2026, there is no middle ground. In any case, I don't think they will be out of the points zone in 2025, it is still a team that has a lot of funds.

It makes a difference, not matter if your are fighting for the championship or not. For team members, team partners, team sponsors, team shareholders, etc. etc.

And when we look back at the last big regulation changes, the teams who dominated, RBR (2022) and Mercedes (2014), got their things together already the year before under the old rules.

Your technical staff is good or not. Sometimes it needs more guidance (what AMR obviously tries with Cardile and Newey) or other adjustments. But you won't be 7th fastest team in 2025, completely lost and suddenly are at the sharp end at 2026.

I agree, and wrote a similar post a while ago. People act like you can just put the pieces in place, do some planning and then flick a switch and you're suddenly world beaters. I don't think it works like that in any sport or discipline, unfortunately. You have to build on the excellence that is already being produced.

[Sherrinford]

Giving up an entire, or even most of a full season to focus on the following year has never worked one time that I can remember. The one exception might be Honda in 2008, with Ross Brawn deciding immediately at abandon the season and spend $400 million on the 09 car.

There are good examples though of teams who gave up a season and flopped miserably into the first year - BMW and Renault in 2008 into 09. Ferrari 2013 into 14, Renault 2020 into 22.

Kind of hard to compare pre CAP F1 to post CAP F1. The advantages in funding and infrastructure by the top 4 back in that era was impossible to overcome by a few extra months of dedication to a change in rules. I will add that some teams, like Williams, are still facilities challenged. So are Aston but they should be firing on all cylinders by 2026.

We've seen the effects of the CAP over the last couple of years with the migration of "star" engineers from the big 4 to the rest of F1. The big 4 can nolonger fit all those engineers under their respective CAPs.

In my opinion it's not a problem of structures, if you spend a lot, there are correlation problems and you are the last team on the grid... Then, what a car they have produced in 2023, a beast. So if they had problems in that sense, that exception would not have been there

[diffuser]

Giving up an entire, or even most of a full season to focus on the following year has never worked one time that I can remember. The one exception might be Honda in 2008, with Ross Brawn deciding immediately at abandon the season and spend $400 million on the 09 car.

There are good examples though of teams who gave up a season and flopped miserably into the first year - BMW and Renault in 2008 into 09. Ferrari 2013 into 14, Renault 2020 into 22.

Kind of hard to compare pre CAP F1 to post CAP F1. The advantages in funding and infrastructure by the top 4 back in that era was impossible to overcome by a few extra months of dedication to a change in rules. I will add that some teams, like Williams, are still facilities challenged. So are Aston but they should be firing on all cylinders by 2026.

We've seen the effects of the CAP over the last couple of years with the migration of "star" engineers from the big 4 to the rest of F1. The big 4 can nolonger fit all those engineers under their respective CAPs.

In my opinion it's not a problem of structures, if you spend a lot, there are correlation problems and you are the last team on the grid... Then, what a car they have produced in 2023, a beast. So if they had problems in that sense, that exception would not have been there

Not sure what you're saying....In case I wasn't clear what I was saying is working with 1/3 of the budget and 10 year older tools are hard to over come with 25% more time on a project .

[zoroastar]

Of course, as many say, it makes no difference where you are in 2025 if you are not fighting for the world championship it is irrelevant. Either you start the season fighting to win or you dedicate yourself directly to 2026, there is no middle ground. In any case, I don't think they will be out of the points zone in 2025, it is still a team that has a lot of funds.

It makes a difference, not matter if your are fighting for the championship or not. For team members, team partners, team sponsors, team shareholders, etc. etc.

And when we look back at the last big regulation changes, the teams who dominated, RBR (2022) and Mercedes (2014), got their things together already the year before under the old rules.

Your technical staff is good or not. Sometimes it needs more guidance (what AMR obviously tries with Cardile and Newey) or other adjustments. But you won't be 7th fastest team in 2025, completely lost and suddenly are at the sharp end at 2026.

I agree, and wrote a similar post a while ago. People act like you can just put the pieces in place, do some planning and then flick a switch and you're suddenly world beaters. I don't think it works like that in any sport or discipline, unfortunately. You have to build on the excellence that is already being produced.

i agree with that to a certain extent, but everyone is going to be building completely new cars for 26, with completely new power units. that in itself is a pretty huge equalizer. its important to become a better team through the 25 season, yes, but the whole championship could be settled by one engine maker being way ahead in the game in 26. or one designer understanding what its going to take in the ruleset to make a faster car. newey is the guy id want more than anyone else in that situation. id take him over the next 5 current f1 designers put together to be honest haha. my only worry in that department is if the rules are too constricting for him to make enough of a difference. 2025 is important for the team to become better in all areas but i think they can do that while concentrating on the big picture in 26. lets hope that honda bring their A game, because if there was ever another chance for a brawn gp moment, it would be 2026

[KimiRai]

Edd & Mark also mentioned that there was "a certain hint of slight frustration" behind Fallows' words about the inherited Merc 2024 suspension, this is admittedly way too much speculation but perhaps it wasn't the exact thing he wanted

There was in some of his language a certain hint of slight frustration, not massively but you just feel that maybe they thought there was a bit more they could do.

15:42 (bit earlier if you want context)
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/asto ... t-podcast/

Fallows was not an idiot. You have to wonder how much was actually his fault with this wrong suspension and the 2023 front wing/nose flex ban that they aren't enforcing anymore

[collindsilva]

We are done with this horrible AMR 24, lets move on.
Even before the AMR 23 was launched, there were rumors about the excellent WT number, do we have anything on AMR 25.
As we know the F1 is small circle and people talk to each other, any positive news will be exciting and will make 2025 year very interesting.